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Ropes for Red Rocks

Original Post
Bob Johnson · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 192

Hello Everyone!
I'm planning on a trip to Red Rocks, NV in March and I'm contemplating gear...specifically ropes. I picked up the guide book and it looks like there are a lot of routes with many pitches of 100 feet or longer. Since you wouldn't be able to double rope rap off a pitch this long if you got into trouble, I think having two ropes on hand would be advisable.

I have a 9.8mm 60m rope and a 10.2mm ~57m rope (had to chop 3 meters off the end). Would having both of these on hand be sufficient? To save weight, I'm also looking at getting two 70m half ropes. Anyone climb with half ropes in Red Rocks? It doesn't seem like the routes wander too much, but two half ropes would be significantly lighter than my normal climbing ropes. What would you advise?

Thanks!

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

One problem with rapping with thin ropes at Red Rocks is that they will have more of a tendency to get stuck on the pull (cracks, knobs and flakes) then fatter ropes.

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 5,636

I've been climbing here for a long time and I never seen the need to buy a 70m. For long rappels, I usually trot out my 60m half ropes, or I'll bring my 60m single with a 60m thin-diameter static line.

Your setup, with two full size single ropes would likely work fine, I doubt you'd come up short lacking the 3m on one rope. I can't think of any rappels that are the full 60m in length but always consult a guidebook to be sure.

William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30

I was just thinking about this question as well.

So it sounds like double ropes are mostly useful in case you need to do a long rappel, but not because of traversy/winding routes. Correct?

Bob Johnson · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 192

I've been able to finagle single rope descents with a 70m for a variety of popular climbs (Crimson Chrysalis, Cat in the Hat, Birdland, etc.). So check the MP beta for the routes you are interested in ahead of time. Chances are if someone has been able to get down with a single rope, it will be reported here. But there are a few places where a double rope rappel is required.

As for traversing/wandering routes, I've always been able to mitigate rope drag with appropriate slinging of pro. Never used half ropes.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

I've done lots of routes in RR with 60m 8.5mm half ropes. Although one doesn't think of the routes as wandering, the half ropes can be useful even on bolted pitches.



I think that for each rope diameter, there is a range of features that might snag the rope. I've never had any experience that suggests thinner ropes are more likely to snag---thinner and thicker ropes might snag at different locations, but RR has enough features to grab any diameter rope if you are unlucky.
William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30
Bob Johnson wrote:I've been able to finagle single rope descents with a 70m for a variety of popular climbs (Crimson Chrysalis, Cat in the Hat, Birdland, etc.). So check the MP beta for the routes you are interested in ahead of time. Chances are if someone has been able to get down with a single rope, it will be reported here. But there are a few places where a double rope rappel is required. As for traversing/wandering routes, I've always been able to mitigate rope drag with appropriate slinging of pro. Never used half ropes.
Ok cool. I was thinking of getting doubles since I'm often at the Gunks and was wondering if I should get them in time for my trip to RR next month. It seems like a 70m single rope will do the trick for most of what I want to do.
mark kerns · · denver, co · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 380

i climbed there last spring on a set of double 60 meter. worked great.

Peter BrownWhale · · Randallstown, MD · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 21

I use a 60M single and also have a 60M half on hand just for the rappels. I feel better about having the half rope over a static pull line in the case of needed to climb up to free a stuck rope.

Eric and Lucie · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 140

I've climbed extensively at RR for over 20 yrs and have almost always used two half ropes (60m). I think it is the way to go. The pro can be pretty scattered around on the faces (e.g. nuts between varnish plates).

Never been a problem pulling rappels... just need to pay attention.

rockratrei · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 396

Climbed in RR for 20 yrs with 60m half-ropes. Peyote Power is a rope stretcher so watch your ends if you get on it.

William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30

Might as well fully commit to hijacking this thread.

My first trip to Red Rocks will be Thanksgiving this year. I plan to spend most of my time doing easy/moderate trad routes (most likely up to 5.8/5.9) and I'll assume I'll be chasing the sun. Maybe a few sport routes, but I'm more psyched on the trad.

I'm flying there, so I'm either going to take 60m doubles or single 70m. Not going to bring 3 ropes.

It sounds like I could get away with a single 70m for most of the classic climbs in that grade range...I'll just need to do extra research on descents. I may have to use some long slings, but the pro usually doesn't wander TOO much.

HOWEVER, it also sounds like if I had 60m doubles, I should just bring them because then I wouldn't have to worry so much about descent alternatives. It'll be annoying on sport routes, but whatever I can deal with it.

Does this sound, right?

It's funny because the people who have been telling me a single 70m is good enough haven't spent a lot of time out there, but the 20 year veterans posting in this thread say 60m doubles are the way to go.

pbrownw wrote:I use a 60M single and also have a 60M half on hand just for the rappels. I feel better about having the half rope over a static pull line in the case of needed to climb up to free a stuck rope.
Ah that's an interesting idea because that's exactly what I have now so I wouldn't need to buy another half rope (only bought one because it was on sale) or a single 70m (needed to retire old one recently).
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I'd go with the 60m doubles if you can use them as twins for when you don't need halves. Many routes have the option of a walk-off descent but they are often time consuming so you have to make sure you climb fast enough. That being said, I bailed off solar slab last year with a single 70m and probably could have done it with a single 60m. A lot of the moderate classics have a lot of options for descent with many rap stations and walk off options.

Also, figure out your camping options sooner rather than later as you probably won't be able to just walk in and find a site during thanksgiving break. It's gonna be packed. Also, I highly recommend doing tunnel vision. If you use a 60m, on it, make sure you choose a high enough spot for the belay after the tunnel or you might not make it all the way to the final belay at the top.

William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30
eli poss wrote:I'd go with the 60m doubles if you can use them as twins for when you don't need halves. Many routes have the option of a walk-off descent but they are often time consuming so you have to make sure you climb fast enough. That being said, I bailed off solar slab last year with a single 70m and probably could have done it with a single 60m. A lot of the moderate classics have a lot of options for descent with many rap stations and walk off options. Also, figure out your camping options sooner rather than later as you probably won't be able to just walk in and find a site during thanksgiving break. It's gonna be packed. Also, I highly recommend doing tunnel vision. If you use a 60m, on it, make sure you choose a high enough spot for the belay after the tunnel or you might not make it all the way to the final belay at the top.
Yea just doing Airbnb since it seems like camping is first come, first serve.

It doesn't seem like there are any reasons not to bring 60m doubles other than maybe the extra weight compared to single 70m because it sounds like doubles won't be overkill.
JK- Branin · · NYC-ish · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 56
WillK wrote: Yea just doing Airbnb since it seems like camping is first come, first serve.
The camping also mostly sucks and is often only a few bucks cheaper than Airbnb or a hotel. By the time you factor in a shower and continental breakfast at the hotel you often come out ahead at the hotel.
William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30
JK- wrote: The camping also mostly sucks and is often only a few bucks cheaper than Airbnb or a hotel. By the time you factor in a shower and continental breakfast at the hotel you often come out ahead at the hotel.
Heh also use of a kitchen is nice so I don't have to fit a stove and cookware in my checked luggage, too!
Simon W · · Nowhere Land · Joined May 2013 · Points: 55

If you climb any of the routes in the area and rap Our Father beware the rope
eating crack on the left side on the first rap.

The crux on that pitch is in your face! Kind of a stiff cooldown when I was forced into climbing it one cold and windy spring day.

W L · · NEVADASTAN · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 851

The smartest thing you could do is look up the routes you want to do, both in the guidebook and online, and determine what rope setup would best fit your needs and compare that to what you own already. Handren's pitch lengths (especially when audited vs online beta) are generally quite accurate.

Double EDK > Double Fishermans' here to be sure, and be very mindful of your pulls on rappel.

Skinny ropes, fat ropes, whatever....being smart about where and how you pull the ropes (in addition to being aware of winds) makes a hell of a lot more difference than the diameter of your rope relative to it getting stuck here or anywhere else really.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30
Weston L wrote:The smartest thing you could do is look up the routes you want to do, both in the guidebook and online, and determine what rope setup would best fit your needs and compare that to what you own already. Handren's pitch lengths (especially when audited vs online beta) are generally quite accurate. Double EDK > Double Fishermans' here to be sure, and be very mindful of your pulls on rappel. Skinny ropes, fat ropes, whatever....being smart about where and how you pull the ropes (in addition to being aware of winds) makes a hell of a lot more difference than the diameter of your rope relative to it getting stuck here or anywhere else really. But that's just like, my opinion, man.
Well, I've certainly tried to do that, but it also seems like there are often differing opinions on descent not to mention several options. Looking at the thread for Johnny Vegas, for example, people go back and forth on whether to use doubles on JV or go down with a single on Solar Slab Gully. Neither option seems to be the clear cut winner. I'm starting to think the crux of every route there is the descent.
Derrick · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

For Willk since this seems to be his thread now

I've been making periodic trips to RR for a few years, definitely not local. I would consider bringing the single 70 and one of the other ropes as a tag though. Many descents go fine with a 70 or can be walked off, but you wouldn't be limited to only those routes, and you wouldn't be bringing two ropes on routes that don't need them (most routes IME). If you prefer climbing on a single line I would think this is the way to go. If you/your partner are comfortable with doubles, and prefer them then there's your answer.

RR in march can be crazy, always make sure you have a backup route or two.

William Kong · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 30
John Wilder wrote:In the 14 years I've been climbing in red rock, I've done a lot of climbing in the park and I've used every rope set up you can think of. Doubles, twins, single and trail line, single and tag line, single... You name it. If I had to pick one setup for winter, it'd be a single 70m line. Two ropes really isn't necessary for most of the winter routes. I cant actually think of any off the top of my head. Light, versatile, and less potential rope management.
haha everyone is so convincing with their opinion. I might be go crazy trying to make this decision.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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