Rope Tug Communication - what do you think of this protocol?
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Hello all, Instructions
Leader Goes Off BelayFollower: (notices extra long pause)Leader: take - me - off - be - lay Follower: off? Leader: yes Follower Goes On BelayLeader: (pulls slack from the line)Follower: me! Leader: on - be - lay Follower: on? Leader: yes Notes:
I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but what do you think? I came up with it after reading the thread: Multi-Pitch Communication - When you can't quite hear, or see!. I would have posted there but didn't want to wake such an old thread. |
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The belayer should never yank on the rope....... |
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The air horn is where its at. |
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My use of an air horn ended abruptly when my second partner in a row had a heart attack. |
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Most of my climbing is at Smith Rock. Trad routes there tend to wander and have large ledges. Combine this with the sound of the river and afternoon wind and you'll often be out of communication. |
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Never been a fan of tugs. Usually you're at the end of a long and/or devious pitch, and a tug is completely damped out by the time it reaches the other end. |
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I have had good luck with 3 leader tugs for "off belay" and "on belay". |
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John and I use the same system. It works well in Red Rock or in the alpine, since there is a lot of friction on the rope (tugs don't really seem to work as well). Here the problem for communication is the wind. I can't really think of any 30m pitches on which you can't communicate, but I'm sure there are some. It can be a pain to feed out that much rope through the device, but it's simple (no wondering which tugs mean which). I can explain it to someone new in 30 seconds. When the rope comes tight, and I'll be able to tell if they're feeding it through the device, I'll drop a few feet for them to take off the device, put them on belay and wait 20 seconds or so. Then I'll pull it in tight, and will have told them that they're on belay when this happens. Proceed as normal. |
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In my experience, rope tugs are highly unreliable and leave each partner at their bitter end going, "was that three tugs?" |
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The system I use is 3 pulls= off belay then yard up some slack and pause, then pull up all slack and put second on belay then 3 more pulls= on belay. The pause allows the second to take the leader off. If you are unsure you keep the belay on and the leader will pull in slack until the knot is at the belay device. |
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What I do is this: |
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I really appreciate all the responses, folks. There's certainly no shortage of methods to choose from! I'm going to try out John's tug-less method as it seems very intuitive which means less risk of forgetting the number and sequence of tugs etc, when dehydrated or otherwise impaired.
The only thing I'm not comfortable with is the last step. What if the leader cannot get the belay on in N seconds? (Due to cold, hands, dropped belay device, or some other unforeseen interference.) |
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If it's just rope tugs, 4 pops, I'm off; pull rope & rig up, 4 pops, Second is on. |
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+1 for Mark's approach. A lot of folks expressed that they cannot feel leader rope tugs for various reasons (friction?). Be sure to quickly pull out the slack to the belayer and immediately follow up with long, hard pulls, it will be understood Cruxic wrote:The only thing I'm not comfortable with is the last step. What if the leader cannot get the belay on in N seconds? (Due to cold, hands, dropped belay device, or some other unforeseen interference.)I would suggest another set of leader pulls for "on belay" but in either case an unsure belayer should move up a couple of feet while still on at least minimal protection and watch for the rope to move up almost immediately. |
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There have been many times when i cannot hear or see my partner due to wanding routes, wind, or a nearby waterfall/river. I always go over the protocol with my partner before we start climbing. |
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Cruxic wrote:I'm going to try out John's tug-less method as it seems very intuitive which means less risk of forgetting the number and sequence of tugs etc, when dehydrated or otherwise impaired.This is pretty much the system that I've been using for a few years, so I'll add a few thoughts. I quit using the rope tug method because I have had wind mimic all sorts of rope tugs, and I didn't like the ambiguity. As you describe in your steps below, I follow the same steps regardless of whether my partner can hear me or not. That way we are used to the same sequence. If they hear me, great; confirmation is always nice. If not, no big deal. We both know what to expect. Cruxic wrote:Assuming I have understood correctly, the protocol looks like this: * I take my leader off belay only when I have clear, unmistakable, voice or visual communication. If there's any doubt I keep the leader on belay until all the rope has been fed out.As others have described, when I get to the top of a pitch there is a long pause while I build an anchor. Only when I'm ready to put my partner on belay do I pull the rope up. I pull the rope up as fast as I can so there is no question that I'm not climbing at this speed, and must be at an anchor (i.e. off belay). If there will be a lot of rope to pull up, I might stop briefly after 30+ feet to let my partner take the device off, then I pull the rest up. A very few times, I have had partners be unsure that they should take me off, and it was no big deal to go to the end of the rope. This system has worked really well for me. My partners that haven't used it before have all said that they understood it easily the first time and that it worked well. In order to keep things safe, consider how your belayer is perceiving your movement. As someone described above, you might have to stop to build a nest of gear midpitch. Your partner might be thinking you are building the anchor. But then you start moving again slowly, so that isn't the case and they haven't taken you off belay. If this was a nest of gear before some crux move which is then followed by a long easy ramp for 30', just remember not to take off running up the slab. Your partner could mistake your speed for you hauling rope up (i.e. you are off belay). I think this is highly unlikely, as it is pretty easy to distinguish between the movements of someone climbing and someone hauling up rope, but it is worth keeping in mind. Cruxic wrote:* Leader never pulls up rope until he/she is completely ready to put the follower on belay. (Even when voice communication is working.) * Leader always puts follower on belay immediately after pulling up all rope. (Even when voice communication is working.) * Follower knows he/she is on belay N seconds after the rope comes tight (where N is a number you are comfortable with). The only thing I'm not comfortable with is the last step. What if the leader cannot get the belay on in N seconds? (Due to cold, hands, dropped belay device, or some other unforeseen interference.)I don't tell people to assume they are on belay after x number of seconds. I tell them that pulling up the rope is the last thing I will do before I will put them on belay, so it shouldn't take long. As soon as they feel me pulling rope up again, they will know they are on belay. I will pull fairly frequently until I feel them moving. These pulls can be a little annoying if you are cleaning the anchor, but that is far outwieghed by the value of the confirmation that you are on belay. If for some reason you couldn't get them on belay immediately, then they wouldn't start feeling you pulling the rope every 15-20 sec. to see if they've moved. I'd hope you could rig a munter pretty quickly, such that your partner would never actually know that you'd been delayed by dropping your device until they arrived at the anchor with you. If you couldn't do a munter quickly for some reason, I suppose you could tie off the rope to the anchor quickly while you work out another means to belay. If your partner started climbing, they would notice that the rope wasn't moving and would not keep going up. If they fell right then, your tie off would hold them nearly as well as a belay. Good luck with the system. I think you'll find it results in less confusion than the rope tug method. |
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Probably better to use a whistle than rope pulls. |
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You guys rock! Rich, your method of pulling tight every 15-20 seconds solves my concern and is very intuitive. And John, point taken that a constant upward tension on the rope is indeed quite distinctive.
Thanks again, everybody :) |
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+1 for rope tugs, just from having personal experience with someone who is deaf in a climbing world. We have only done single pitch climbs, and developed rope tugs for our communication. If there is a better way I would be interested in knowing.... |
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Well executed rope tugs beat all the rest of the ways to communicate hands down. But, they must be well executed. In high winds, near a ragging river or where there are lots of other climbings yelling, rope tugs rule. In eldo, there are all kinds of people yelling all kinds of things. Who knows who's who. Unfortunately, I got to participate in a rescue two years ago. There was a miscommunication that led the leader to fall more than 100 feet. |
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Oh, and signals that wait 15 or 20 seconds or 3 minutes. No way. Terrible waste of time. |