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rope drag is a drag
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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
Rope drag seriously is the worst thing in trad leads im still learning how to minimize i t. Techniques for prevention will be appreciated

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By Mark Mueller
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 8, 2012
Great quality rock on this one!
Extend gear placements when possible to prevent sharp bends/angles in the rope. Use runners on wandering routes.

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By jack s.
From Kamloops, BC
May 8, 2012
Mean Green P2
Runners (especially under roofs), not z clipping, double ropes, fewer pieces of pro...

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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
May 8, 2012
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat
the alpine draw

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
Got alpine draws. Know about roofs extending corner pieces etc. That stuff is easily said than done. Just curious if anybody has particulars technical tips they use. I can't predict wandering of the route well yet. Gonna be practicing more double rope techniques too

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By Joshua Steenburgh
From Longmont, Colorado
May 8, 2012
Chocolate Corner.
A particular technical tip would be...extending your placements using alpine draws... ಠ_ಠ
If really concerned about rope-drag. It is not a bad idea to extend all cams (unless on splitters) with an additional quickdraw. You could also pick up one or two DMM Revolver carabiners, but they're kinda pricey and heavy. They're proven to reduce friction, but I still see them as sort of gimmicky.

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By martinharris
From Glenwood Springs CO
May 8, 2012
Skinny ropes are pretty much the shit. And obviously extend more and Place less helps a lot. But if u r extending what you should and are still having bad issues with drag try using a skinny cord.

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
So I've used tricks like walking cams instead of frequent placing. I also back clean and back extend pieces finding clipping into extended piece right away may be sketchy so I clip into the cam biner then go back and extend the piece from higher stance. It seems like a lot if work and im not sure if anybody else does it. Sometimes running out easy sections lead me to more drag for some reason. Could be route navigation...Skinny ropes do help though. One more thing: the presence if wind creates a huge rope drag so its something to consider but not sure how to avoid it.

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By Andy Hansen
From Longmont, Colorado
May 8, 2012
Intruder, 5.11+. Zion National Park. Photo: Matt Kuehl
Double ropes. Or place less gear. Though it seems reasonable to place a ton of gear, it could be beneficial to place less.

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
I use double ropes crossing them is still a problem im working on but I can't place less gear honestly especially on sketchy lines

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By roger fritz from rockford, IL
From Rockford, IL
May 8, 2012
Wichita Mountains, Sunshine Wall
Elena Sera Jose wrote:
So I've used tricks like walking cams instead of frequent placing. I also back clean and back extend pieces finding clipping into extended piece right away may be sketchy so I clip into the cam biner then go back and extend the piece from higher stance. It seems like a lot if work and im not sure if anybody else does it. Sometimes running out easy sections lead me to more drag for some reason. Could be route navigation...Skinny ropes do help though. One more thing: the presence if wind creates a huge rope drag so its something to consider but not sure how to avoid it.


The additional length you may fall clipped into a gear biner versus into the extension is very minimal. I try to set the extension of my placement to so as to minimize the rope drag. The solidity of the gear placement is what will catch me in a fall. To mess with it twice is less efficient. Clipping directly into a gear biner typically shifts the piece more so I rarely do this.
I would continue working on setting extensions to the length you want them the first time.
It is fun to look down on the rope line after a lead and see what you did or what you could have done better to make the rope drag better.

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By roger fritz from rockford, IL
From Rockford, IL
May 8, 2012
Wichita Mountains, Sunshine Wall
I will place safe pieces that are set primarily for rope drag management. If an additional piece can be set to pull the rope off the rock and into air it is always a good thing! I have discovered that a rope running through air has a lot less rope drag then if it runs over rock!! ha

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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
May 8, 2012
Don't put gear near the base of a roof or the base of a ledge even though it may often be tempting.

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By roger fritz from rockford, IL
From Rockford, IL
May 8, 2012
Wichita Mountains, Sunshine Wall
Elena Sera Jose wrote:
I use double ropes crossing them is still a problem im working on but I can't place less gear honestly especially on sketchy lines


There is nothing wrong with placing alot of gear. Over protect routes until you gain confidence in both your placements quality and your climbing skill. Efficiency is a serious consideration especially on long routes.

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By Michael Dupont
May 8, 2012
With double ropes I've always found it pretty important to have a plan before heading up. Since you usually can get a glimpse of what you're in store for, decide from the belay ledge which rope you're going to use on each section. If there's a traverse I'll use just one of the doubles leading up to it, do the traverse and then completely switch over to the unused rope.

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By steitz
From midcoast, maine
May 8, 2012
Sounds like practice and getting more comfortable up there with what you're doing up there will help you sort it out-


ex- getting comfortable enough to take the time to place the cam, clip an alpine draw on, and only clip into the end of the draw.


ex- crossing your double ropes


long runners on everything will also help.

If you do use quickdraws, do you know how to stack them properly into a draw chain so that when you're out of runners you will still have long options for connecting to the gear?

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
All my draws are Alpine runners threaded biner into biner to shorten it to a manageable draw size racked on both sides of my harness on loops I could bring more slings over shoulder if I needed to actually but for now 12 gets me up a pitch pretty much. I like the idea of double ropes but its something that I need to get used to for sure to keep them straight. I also noticed when I place above my head its easier to see if the ropes are crossed but that may not always be an option. Thank you for your input!

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
May 8, 2012
Elena Sera Jose wrote:
So I've used tricks like walking cams instead of frequent placing.

????? huh

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
SendaGorilla wrote:
????? huh

Sport climbers need not reply

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
May 8, 2012
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
muttonface wrote:
...Reading a route correctly, knowing where your rope is, where it's coming from, where you want it to be in order to keep the straightest line possible, and finding obscure placements that don't necessarily jump out at you will take some time, but it will help dramatically once you become proficient at it. <--------Run-on sentence. Apologies.


I don't think you needed to apologize. Ellenor wouldn't recognize a run-on sentence if she typed one.

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
Crag Dweller wrote:
I don't think you needed to apologize. Ellenor wouldn't recognize a run-on sentence if she typed one.

Again...sport climbers go focus on grammar. Mutton is the s**t !

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By Richard Fernandez
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 8, 2012
Crack Test Dummies EPC
What Elena "will be" Jose means is bringing a cam(s) up with you as you ascend.

A.K.A. Shuffling

Usually done with two cams. May be called "euro-ing" also.

Dangerous thing is if one or both blow there is a BIG fall potential as your next piece is WAAAAAY down there.

"Walking cam" generally refers to a cam creeping backwards into a crack from up and down rope movement. Sling length can help prevent/minimize this.

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By Elena Sera Jose
From colorado
May 8, 2012
bacon
Richard Fernandez wrote:
What Elena "will be" Jose means is bringing a cam(s) up with you as you ascend. A.K.A. Shuffling Usually done with two cams. May be called "euro-ing" also. Dangerous thing is if one or both blow there is a BIG fall potential as your next piece is WAAAAAY down there. "Walking cam" generally refers to a cam creeping backwards into a crack from up and down rope movement. Sling length can help prevent/minimize this.

Everybody knows that! Except for sportsters of course. OK OK I climb sport too. But anyway walking cams is very convenient and can be very safe as long as you realize the importance of placing a "Leaver" every 20 ft or so. The longest I walked cams was 15 ft so far I think. It was two yellows.

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By SendaGorilla
From Boulder
May 8, 2012
Elena Sera Jose wrote:
Sport climbers need not reply


ummmmm....actually, i first learned to climb on gear.
I just seriously never heard that term before, other than when describing a cam "Walking Out, or In" when you climb past it...usually WITHOUT a draw of somekind attached to it.

Thanks for the jab at sport climbing though....that was TOTALLY necessary! :-\ (rolls eyes...)

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By sanz
From Raleigh, NC
May 8, 2012
One of my first trad leads, on Ooga Chocka at Crowder's Mountain.
I carry slings over the shoulder with one biner clipped to each one. I use these when extending cams that already have a racking biner. I find this helps me avoids the hassle of deploying an alpine draw, and makes it easier for me to carry enough runners to extend every placement (if necessary) without crowding my gear loops too badly. You also save the weight of one extra biner, and distribute the weight more evenly around your body. Downside is they can be tough to deploy from some stances... but then again, so can alpine draws.

I follow the rule that if there is not a straight and obstacle-free line between the piece I just placed, my last piece, and the spot I anticipate putting my next piece, extend. If followed rigidly, this gets me home with minimal drag most of the time.

+1 on not placing gear under roofs or above ledges. If you absolutely must, use a double-length runner.

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By Richard Fernandez
From Flagstaff, AZ
May 8, 2012
Crack Test Dummies EPC
Hmmm...
Hmmm...

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