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Rob Miller on training
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By Nate Reno
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Oct 2, 2012
Ellingwood Point Summit, Little Bear in the background.

Interesting, and not entirely what I'de expect.
But I wonder if there would be a difference in hormonal response in trained vs untrained individuals, which is kinda the idea that I got out of the Miller article - that cross training is used as method to continue to produce results after the individual is well trained and gains are much harder to come by.
As opposed to untrained individuals that are are probably going to respond quickly to new stimulus, regardless of hormone levels.
Thanks for posting what you found Will.


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Oct 2, 2012

Continuing...this one also shows that training the larger mass (jump squats vs. bench press) elicits greater hormonal response (2x in this case). More interestingly, there were also correlations with diet.

J. Appl. Physiol. 82(1): 49¨C54, 1997.

Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise
Jeff S. Volek, William J. Kraemer, Jill A. Bush, Thomas Incledon, and Mark Boetes

Abstract
Manipulation of resistance exercise variables (i.e., intensity, volume, and rest periods) affects the endocrine response to exercise; however, the influence of dietary nutrients on basal and exercise-induced concentrations of hormones is less understood. The present study examined the relationship between dietary nutrients and resting and exercise-induced blood concentrations of testosterone (T) and cortisol (C). Twelve men performed a bench press exercise protocol (5 sets to failure using a 10-repetitions maximum load) and a jump squat protocol (5 sets of 10 repetitions using 30% of each subject¡¯s 1-repetition maximum squat) with 2 min of rest between all sets. A blood sample was obtained at preexercise and 5 min postexercise for determination of serum T and C. Subjects also completed detailed dietary food records for a total of 17 days. There was a significant (P ¡Ü 0.05) increase in postexercise T compared with preexercise values for both the bench press (7.4%) and jump squat (15.1%) protocols; however, C was not significantly different from preexercise concentrations. Significant correlations were observed between preexercise T and percent energy protein (r = −0.71), percent energy fat (r = 0.72), saturated fatty acids (g ⋅ 1,000 kcal−1 ⋅ day−1;r = 0.77), monounsaturated fatty acids (g ⋅ 1,000 kcal−1 ⋅ day−1;r = 0.79), the polyunsaturated fat-to-saturated fat ratio (r = −0.63), and the protein-to-carbohydrate ratio (r = −0.59). There were no significant correlations observed between any nutritional variables and preexercise C or the absolute increase in T and C after exercise. These data confirm that high-intensity resistance exercise results in elevated postexercise T concentrations. A more impressive finding was that dietary nutrients may be capable of modulating resting concentrations of T.

Would be interesting to see some studies that test for correlation with micronutrient/vits/minerals. Zinc, specifically. I'm sure they're out there.


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By JLP
From The Internet
Oct 2, 2012

Wouldn't vigorous masturbation elevate the same hormones?


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By S.Stelli
From Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 2, 2012

Will - I think Rob Miller was pointing more towards the "big lifts" i.e. the back squat, the deadlift, the press etc to generate as close to 100% of your genetic potential for atheletic ability.

He couples the idea of a high level of skill training, ramping up intensity and lowering volume. And cross training in an efficient manner to quickly activate the maximum amount of muscle motor units while doing whatever skill you are trying to accomplish.

He alludes to a hormonal response that would increase strength, and therfore increase "performance" across the board. Performance being different for each type of athelete, in Miller's words... their trajectory.


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Oct 2, 2012

JLP wrote:
Wouldn't vigorous masturbation elevate the same hormones?



Watching lots of p0rn for the T yeah. Althought it does then drop below normal level if you "consumate the relationship" so to speak. No idea how, or if, it affects IGFs or HGH.

Also supposed to be something of a feedback loop there.


SStelli wrote:
Will - I think Rob Miller was pointing more towards the "big lifts" i.e. the back squat, the deadlift, the press etc...He alludes to a hormonal response that would increase strength


I'm aware of that. Which is why I sought the research to back up the premise that those "big lifts" actually do elcit such a response. And the research shows that while they do elicit a much greater response than just training the smaller muscles we would want to train (finger flexors, etc), that greater response doesn't correlate to improvement in strength or hypertrophy.

It seems that the bottom line is that the training stimulus on the specific muscle in question is the limiting factor, especially for the smaller ones where you aren't going to be building huge new amounts of mass in the best case, rather than a lack of sufficient hormonal activity/response.

EDIT: I should add, I actually do think some of those lifts are very beneficial, but not due to the hormone angle, just due to getting stronger throughout the chain...core and lower back, glutes and hip flexors. Many climbers say they train "core" and all they do is a few high rep ab exercises and do little to nothing for the lower back. Heavy, low rep deadlifts would probably benefit most climbers...provided they don't get injured...which is all too probable since many don't have a weight training background.


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By Nate Reno
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Oct 3, 2012
Ellingwood Point Summit, Little Bear in the background.

Could someone please translate the nutritional part of Will's 2nd post. I'm dumb and got lost =)


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By S.Stelli
From Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 3, 2012

Here is a simplified breakdown of 10 different studies revolving around hormone response to specific weight training. Done by some folks at the University of New Mexico. Unfortunately they don't have the cited studies available to the general public as far as I can tell.

Hormone studies


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By kevino
Oct 16, 2012

Will are you actually reading and analyzing the research studies or just copying and pasting abstracts from PubMed?


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By kevino
Oct 16, 2012

Nate,

The first article uses untrained men for their study group. So I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding expecting to see increases in untrained men, since the study came to the conclusion that they didn't.

Additionally they only used a sample size of twelve (untrained) men, which is terribly small to apply these results to a larger population, let alone a trained individual. Their exercise regiment was one arm at a time per day, which is definitely not applicable to any scenario that a person would use.


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