Rigid-stem friends

Without regard to countervailing disadvantages, can anyone name some advantages that rigid stemmed cams offer over the modern variety?

Sometimes easier to get unstuck because leverage on the cams can be applied through the stem. However, the ridgid stem contributes to walking in my opinion.

My experience has been that they're more predictable and generally more stable, but if you sling 'em short or omit a 'draw, the motion of the rope can make them walk a little more readily than the flex-stems will.

Since I'm kinda short, I like the fact that they extend my reach. Their rigidity is key to that advantage.

I also think that the old ones, at least, are less attractive to gear thieves. Never mind that some of the ones we use are the original nutted axles, nearly 30 years old and working just fine.

Lastly, you don't cry as much when you leave them on a retreat as you would if you left something more modern, a.k.a. expensive.

flynn wrote:Lastly, you don't cry as much when you leave them on a retreat as you would if you left something more modern, a.k.a. expensive.

Ha ha ha. This is definitely the only advantage I can think of.

they are lighter in many cases

They will occasionally work in a flared horizontal placement where no other cam will hold. This is due to the bar stock acting like a lever. Sounds crazy but it's true.

i just went and counted...33 rigid Friends,, and paid for.

They last forever and they work.

I've found that in horizontal placements the rigid stem acts as a lever (with the bottom lip of the crack acting as a fulcrum) to press the cam even more forcefully into the sides (top & bottom) of the crack.

I think at tied-off rigid stem cam is the strongest horizontal crack protection there is, and, again with the tie-off, they are stronger in shallow featured vertical cracks where the cam has to be placed perependicular to the cliff face. The tie-offs are, however, critical, because otherwise the torque on the stem can be too much and the stem breaks.

In the first case, the downward load on the stem produces an outward force on the cam which is a fraction of the total load, so it would take a lot to extract the cam. I know of some rigid-stem placements that were made in flaring horizontals in the Gunks BITD that might not hold at all with today's flexible stems.

In the second case, a flexible stem loads the cams almost perpendicular to their expansion plane, nearly nullifying the mechanical principles that make a cam work. The rigid stem provides torque that gives the cams a chance to expand against the crack walls.

alexdavis wrote:Without regard to countervailing disadvantages, can anyone name some advantages that rigid stemmed cams offer over the modern variety?

I have a set of tied off rigid stem Friends and a new set of Camalots. Still prefer the tied off Friends in horizontal cracks (Gunks). The 5mm tie offs are long enough so there is no crossload on the carabiner. And they last forever - I've been using them for over 20 years and they're still in great shape.

They just feel better and stronger to me. Don't know about lighter.

They're old school, which always makes everything superior.

I only have one bootied rigid stem. I've never had any problems with it, although I should look into that tie off to make it a little safer. I really didn't know they were considered more solid in horizontal placements with that mod.

Rigids are light and durable.

And the 1911 .45 kicks a$$. Best handgun I ever shot.

Old Custer wrote: I really didn't know they were considered more solid in horizontal placements with that mod.

Really? I would have thought as old as you are you would have known that.

DexterRutecki wrote: Really? I would have thought as old as you are you would have known that.

Gee golly, I just switched over from hexes, so these SLCDs are a whole new can of worms.

I also have a brand new complete set of rigid stems from 1991(never used). I love them! Should I resling them. You guys think the nylon is bad?

agd wrote:can anyone name some advantages that rigid stemmed cams offer over the modern variety?

I've relegated my old rigid stem Friends to the alpine rack. The're lighter than BD Camalots, and seem to work just as well.

And it's nice to get a little nostalgic at altitude.

I have one set of flexible stems and Rigid-stems, as well as a variety of smaller sizes/models... Love my Rigids. Buy one and test it out-You will see. I fell in love with one when we decided to test an old worn out/rusted/seen better days Rigid-Stem in a class. That thing held everything in a variety of placements. Obviously certain placements are ideal for flexible stems but isn't that the point of gear? Pro's/Con's to each piece?

Try one. You will see.

Cheers!

-A

+1 for rigid stems. Got a set for free from one of the coolest dudes I’ve never met and I love them, they are bomb proof. I now have both types of cams and still find a situation on almost every climb where the rigid is a better suited placement. Although I do agree the smaller sizes have much fewer applications. But hey what do I know I still mostly use my nuts.

lighter

They seem to walk more, but I also find them a bit easier to clean. As for the greater weight, well, let's just say if an extra half pound of gear keeps me from sending then I probably wasn't going to succeed with something modern either.