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By dancesatmoonrise
Nov 30, 2012
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Peter Stokes wrote:
well, let's just say if an extra half pound of gear keeps me from sending then I probably wasn't going to succeed with something modern either.


True. Howevver....

The point in my particular case (alpine use) was more for long approaches.

Example, when we did Sunlight Spire last summer, we were thankful to relieve our packs of every single half pound we possibly could. We were in there for five days (hit Noname Basin and some routes there as well) and the lighter rack in the 5-day overnight packs was certainly appreciated.


JLP wrote:
...awkward, energy sucking POS antiques...


Haha, yes. I love my POS antiques. Wish I'd never sold the copperheads, forest chocks, saddle wedges, etc, at the climbing gym 15 years ago. They got scarfed up fast and I thought "good to clean the closet." Mistake. Sure glad I at least kept the RSFs. I love functional antiques. : ) But to each his own.

Side note:
Anyone ever place a saddle wedge? Those were amazing chocks, especially for their day. Some of the new stoppers (nuts) are being shaped like the old saddle wedge - talk about that passive piece being ahead of its time! And they came with this cool pamphlet that taught a lot about chockcraft. Ah... chockcraft... becoming a lost art...?


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By TWK
Dec 1, 2012

They've been paid for since 1982, they've never needed repair, and they still work.

I'd like to play around with some newer gear with (supposed?) improvements, but I can't really bring myself to throw down for it, given the above. I'm sure I'd like the new stuff at least as much, if not more.


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Dec 1, 2012
Colonel Mustard

Alex Stenzel wrote:
What about the nylon webbing on my rigid stems? You think it's safe to climb on 20 year old nylon webbing that never has been used. It looks brand new. Supposedly nylon, even when never used has a max life expectancy of 5 years. What you think?


If you've had to ask twice, you've just answered your own question.


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By wivanoff
Dec 1, 2012
High Exposure

The RSF that I have are the older ones prior to the "Forged Friends". My RSF are all tied off with Gunks tie-off using 5mm Tech cord. I still love 'em - except for the #1

But, I'm curious about the Forged Friends. Isn't the cross section different where you would make the Gunks tie off? If i remember correctly, there was a slot forged on each side of the stem where the lightening holes are and where you would add the 5mm cord.

Don't those slots create a thinner cross section (read: sharper edge) where the lightening holes are?


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By Alex Stenzel
Dec 2, 2012
Drifter 5 star, 12a, Malibu Creek

Here is a picture of my Retro Rack.
Here is a picture of my Retro Rack.


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By Gunkiemike
Dec 2, 2012

wivanoff wrote:
The RSF that I have are the older ones prior to the "Forged Friends". My RSF are all tied off with Gunks tie-off using 5mm Tech cord. I still love 'em - except for the #1 But, I'm curious about the Forged Friends. Isn't the cross section different where you would make the Gunks tie off? If i remember correctly, there was a slot forged on each side of the stem where the lightening holes are and where you would add the 5mm cord. Don't those slots create a thinner cross section (read: sharper edge) where the lightening holes are?


The edge needn't be sharper if you get busy with a small round file.


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By wivanoff
Dec 2, 2012
High Exposure

Gunkiemike wrote:
The edge needn't be sharper if you get busy with a small round file.


I was thinking about the thin cross section BETWEEN the holes. I don't own any forged friends to compare with my old RSF.


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By jhn payne
Dec 2, 2012
"Ragin Cajun" 5.12c Jackson Falls, So Il.

Geez, I think now I'll send mine off to be re-slung, I never did the tie off deal either and led a lot of trad, didn't seem to be a problem. Who does folks recommend for re-slinging RSF Metolius did a superb job on my TCU's but they only sling their own products.


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By David Rivers
Dec 2, 2012
East Beach bouldering

Wired Bliss in Loveland does a great job w/quick turn around.


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By btustison
From Tacoma, Washington
Dec 5, 2012

Sounds like I might have to pick up a couple to play with next season.


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By Rob Warden, Space Lizard
From Springdale Ut
Dec 5, 2012
blah

+1 for wired bliss...and his cams are awesome.


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By john strand
From southern colo
Dec 5, 2012

WB is in Loveland now ???


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By Nick Sandstrom
Dec 7, 2012
spearhead

I have rigid friends 2.5; 3; 3.5; 4, anyone interested they are in great shape but with slings that I tied. Offers?

friends 1
friends 1


friends 2 <br />
friends 2


friends 3
friends 3


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By flynn
Dec 7, 2012

Alex S.: Nylon loses strength just by being around so long, and won't show it until you pull-test it to failure. Get those buggers reslung. Cheap life insurance.

dancesatmoonrise: I liked the Saddle Wedges so much, I still have nearly a full set, and that great pamphlet, too. Chockcraft may be a dying art, but so are cursive writing and being able to spell. They're all still useful.

We still have and use RSFs, including some first-generation, nutted-axle numbers. They work great! As the trigger wires break, though, they may perforce get turned into paperweights. Damn.


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By ccerling
From Boston, MA
Dec 7, 2012
me

Apparently rigid stems let you make cams a little big bigger than usual

Giant Rigid Stem
Giant Rigid Stem


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By Alex Stenzel
Dec 7, 2012
Drifter 5 star, 12a, Malibu Creek

I compared the weight of an rf 3 1/2 and a camalot no.3. and the rf is 176g and the camalot 198g. About 20% less weight for the rigid stem! Regress or progress?


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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Dec 8, 2012

Alex Stenzel wrote:
I compared the weight of an rf 3 1/2 and a camalot no.3. and the rf is 176g and the camalot 198g. About 20% less weight for the rigid stem! Regress or progress?


Nah, it's just that double-axle cams, like Camalots/C4's and Dragon cams, are generally heavier than their single-axle counterparts.

In the same size (approximately)...

Wild Country #3.5 Helium Friend: 171g
DMM #3.5 Demon cam: 181g
DMM #5 Dragon cam: 195g
Wired Bliss #4 Quad cam: 201g
Metolius Medium Supercam: 255g
CAMP #5 Tricam: 120g (winner!)


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By wivanoff
Dec 8, 2012
High Exposure

flynn wrote:
We still have and use RSFs, including some first-generation, nutted-axle numbers. They work great! As the trigger wires break, though, they may perforce get turned into paperweights. Damn.


Flynn: It's pretty easy to repair the trigger wires. For tools all you need are pliers and diagonal cutters. Wire and crimps are available at bait and tackle shops. I've used small copper tubing for crimps and guitar string or bicycle cable for wire.

Over in the UK forums they talk about using plastic "strimmer" (weed whacker) cord and melting the ends to make a "blob". They claim it lasts a long time. But, I haven't seen the thin (1-1.5mm) weed whacker cord here in the States.


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Dec 8, 2012
You stay away from mah pig!

patto wrote:
This thread makes me regret selling my forged rigid friends. :-( That said I like my cams, and I love Totems! I've never seen something grip as well as a Totem cam.


What, you're saying that totems don't pull out as much as your other cams? How often have you had failures with other cams?

The bit that rgold and others mentioned about tied off rigid friends being more stable in some horizontal placements is interesting; I'd not considered that before. But, that benefit has nothing to do with them being rigid, and everything to do with them being possible to move the load from the end of the stem up to the head of the cam, right? So, if some other manufacturer could make regular, modern, flexi-stem cams that were possible to tie off at the head, those would probably still be superior to rigid friends, right?

And I agree that the biggest advantages of rigid friends are that they are/were cheap, and not heartbreaking to leave on a route. I have two sets, that never get used unless I'm going to the Creek.


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By Gunkiemike
Dec 8, 2012

camhead wrote:
What, you're saying that totems don't pull out as much as your other cams? How often have you had failures with other cams? The bit that rgold and others mentioned about tied off rigid friends being more stable in some horizontal placements is interesting; I'd not considered that before. But, that benefit has nothing to do with them being rigid, and everything to do with them being possible to move the load from the end of the stem up to the head of the cam, right? So, if some other manufacturer could make regular, modern, flexi-stem cams that were possible to tie off at the head, those would probably still be superior to rigid friends, right?


I believe you've just described Totem cams.


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By Aric Datesman
Dec 8, 2012

camhead wrote:
So, if some other manufacturer could make regular, modern, flexi-stem cams that were possible to tie off at the head, those would probably still be superior to rigid friends, right?


I seem to recall you having a cam like that... Still working on the racking issues, sadly.

:-(


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By Aric Datesman
Dec 8, 2012

Gunkiemike wrote:
I believe you've just described Totem cams.


How so? Neither really seem to fit the bill IMO.


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By Gunkiemike
Dec 8, 2012

Aric Datesman wrote:
How so? Neither really seem to fit the bill IMO.


IIRC (only used them one day) Totems don't load the lobes through the stem.


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By Aric Datesman
Dec 9, 2012

True, but they're flexible all the way to the attachment on the lobe, which prevents any of the leverage effect.


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Dec 9, 2012
El Chorro

The way I understand it, the rigid stem provides more leverage in a horizontal placement than a flexi stem. So simply adding a tie off point closer to the cam head of a flexi cam would not accomplish the same thing.

Of course I'm relatively uneducated compared to the people who are still following this thread - so maybe I misunderstood.


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