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By Paul Hunnicutt
From Boulder, CO
Mar 11, 2009
Half Dome

Are a lot of people coming to Rumney for a shot at this runout? The UBER classic 5.6 runout after a 5.11b sport climb??? ya right. Seems unlikely and much more likely that someone will eventually get on it, fall, and get hurt...is it worth it so once in a blue moon someone will clear a 5.6 section after 5.11 climbing and think they are ballsy? Will anyone ever think that? I am willing to bet most people who climb at Rumney just think "hey where are the bolts up here, WTF? Climbing doesn't always have to be about danger. This isn't Eldo.

Who really brings a rack up here? How many mixed routes are there? I don't know since I've only climbed there twice. Also the FA lead it on preplaced nuts (not exactly hardcore) and gave the ok. Throw the bolt in. Climbers can find plenty of other ways to overcome potentially hurting themselves then this route.


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 11, 2009
Cool movement on this line

Sir Camsalot wrote:
Why do I cringe everytime someone says this? Oh, thats right, because its a lame ass excuse to dumbing down a route. If "you can always place gear," why not leave it that way?



Judging by your name you are a hardcore trad climber, i am not going to try to knock that because afterall trad is rad, but in this case i believe on bolt to add to the safety of this route would not be a bad decision. after all look at trad climbs that have botled protection on them... many routes on cannon have bolted protection, bolted protection on willard in crawford notch, on catherdral and white horse in conway and the most famous trad line of all time the nose of el cap all have bolts on them somewhere along the route, did that dumb down the route or make it safe?

i know the argument will be put forawrd that those are world class routes and protection isnt possible where the bolts are in many cases, but why not just run it out? because there is a point where running it out is needless, and in the cases of sky pilot it is needless to risk a ground fall in a sport climbing area, when one botld could be added to prevent the ground fall.

also since you cannot see that there are no bolts from the bottom, why surprie someone how doesnt have a guide book or know about The Proj? why not make is safe, for the non trad climber after all rumney is a sport area


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 11, 2009
Cool movement on this line

Paul Hunnicutt wrote:
Are a lot of people coming to Rumney for a shot at this runout? Seems unlikely and much more likely that someone will eventually get on it, fall, and get hurt.



very well said, one bolt would fix that problem


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By john strand
From southern colo
Mar 11, 2009

matthewWallace wrote:
Judging by your name you are a hardcore trad climber, i am not going to try to knock that because afterall trad is rad, but in this case i believe on bolt to add to the safety of this route would not be a bad decision. after all look at trad climbs that have botled protection on them... many routes on cannon have bolted protection, bolted protection on willard in crawford notch, on catherdral and white horse in conway and the most famous trad line of all time the nose of el cap all have bolts on them somewhere along the route, did that dumb down the route or make it safe? i know the argument will be put forawrd that those are world class routes and protection isnt possible where the bolts are in many cases, but why not just run it out? because there is a point where running it out is needless, and in the cases of sky pilot it is needless to risk a ground fall in a sport climbing area, when one botld could be added to prevent the ground fall. also since you cannot see that there are no bolts from the bottom, why surprie someone how doesnt have a guide book or know about The Proj? why not make is safe, for the non trad climber after all rumney is a sport area


Adding bolts when other gear will work is wrong. If everyone could get on every route then what is the point of even bolting a line ?

john


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Mar 11, 2009

John... Where they would put the bolt there is no gear. There is no gear until you're already past the area of danger. so putting MORE than one bolt is not necessary.

One bolt. Good to go.

x x anchor

-----ledge

pin

pin
.
.
.
.
.
. (where i'd think a bolt would go.. clip from the stance you get after the traverse and before you step up to the easy section)
...
.....
....... traverse left
.........
..........x last bolt



x




x



----start ledge


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By john strand
From southern colo
Mar 11, 2009

whatever.I guess the route should have been bolted properly in the first place


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Mar 11, 2009

It was put up in 1986 when Rumney was still in it's early stages of development.. When you think about how it must have looked then instead of people bringing a rope and draws and marching up to waimea to wing off .12's and .13's more people were going to do the slabs at the Meadows.. the trad routes at Main Cliff.. etc

Many routes at Rumney (and other places i'm sure) have had bolts added in the past 20+ years for one reason or another. I think this is a good thing and will prevent an injury.

Anyway, i think Sky pilot is a super fun route and a great way to break into .11's


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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Mar 11, 2009
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en bawn in a brier-patch!'

See this thread for remnants of some of Jake Deez considered input...that is, before he deleted said input.

Cracks don't need bolts...no matter where they are.


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By lee hansche
Administrator
From goffstown, nh
Mar 11, 2009
getting to the last jug before the top out

there were a few mentions of gear not helping on the run out part...

when i said that a small rack of nuts would help i was refering to a spot after the crux when you gain the first ledge with your hands when you are still in the safe zone... place a piece from here and the sketchy mantel that i always saw as a 5.8 move (before the 5.6 climbing) would be protected fine... or put a bolt in there as seems to be the overall feeling from the rumney locals...

i figure that if you are rad and trad you wont know if it gets bolted any way cause you wouldnt be slumin it at Rumney :)


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By Br'er Rabbit
From The Briar Patch
Mar 11, 2009
'Bred en bawn in a brier-patch, Brer Fox--bred en bawn in a brier-patch!'

lee hansche wrote:
there were a few mentions of gear not helping on the run out part...


as in no gear? Ballnutz, HBz, RPz, offset TCUs?


lee hansche wrote:
... i figure that if you are rad and trad you wont know if it gets bolted any way cause you wouldnt be slumin it at Rumney :)


Well, I'm not nearly as RAD as you...nevertheless, you called it...you'll not be seeing me at Rumney (you'll get over it somehow)...but I'll be looking for a pard'ner for Whitehorse and Cathedral at some point this year...takers?


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 11, 2009
Cool movement on this line

john strand wrote:
Adding bolts when other gear will work is wrong. If everyone could get on every route then what is the point of even bolting a line ? john



i not saying bolting the whitney gilman ridge that would be wrong but in a sport area to prevent a ground fall, i dont see the issue. without a bolt there is potential for injury or death with one bolt to protect the dangerous section why not put one bolt on it. come on its a sport climbing place why make it dangerous to conform to trad ethics. bolting the gunks would be dumb but adding a single bolt in rumney seems like the proper thing to do...


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 11, 2009
Cool movement on this line

Ben Lyon wrote:
Cracks don't need bolts...no matter where they are.


this isnt a crack...:)


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Mar 12, 2009

Ben Lyon wrote:
stupid anti bolt babble


Hey ben...

Clearly sport climbing isn't your thing...why don't you just stay out of the conversation of a climbing area you do not go to.

[Edited by forum moderator to remove offensive language and personal attack.]


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By Mike Thompson
From Manchester NH
Mar 12, 2009
cereal killer 5.11b

hello every one :)first of all i think we should remember the original guideline of the proj and why i love it here so much... dont be a jerk... so the name calling and the trad vs sport angry words dont need to be said..... with that said..... when i first was reading this back at the comments of the route i was very much a ... dont bolt it kind of guy. i like the idea of oldschool style balls to the walls climbing :) granted a 5.6 section after 11b isnt so ballsy but i can remember doing a mantle to a mildly run out section and gettin a little foot wiggle goin on :) and i personaly think thats fun :) i do enjoy what someone said a while back about how leaving out bolts later on makes the climber who would other wise be bored with the 5.6 section more engadged :) BUT! after reading all of the lovely opinions of every one i feel like adding 1 bolt wouldnt blind any one.... no one would die cuz someone stuck a bolt up to make sure dumb climbers(and they are out there....i have my occationaly laps in intelegence myself) dont blow a move and put a sad and dark mark on a what would be a cool route..... now... with THAT said :) there are somethings that i would HATE to see retro bolted some day at rumney... such as 5.8 crack by the road...... and journey to a mushroom planet... journey i see being bolted sooner than 5.8 but that would bake me really sad cuz its suck a cool line as is! but all in all good discusion! cant wait to see where this topic goes!

peace!


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Mar 12, 2009

Mike, I don't think anyone will bolt 5.8 crack.. it takes good gear and is an established trad route. Also quite the opposite is happening with Mushroom Planet.. people have removed the fixed gear and are now doing it with their own gear along the way.

Having no bolt on the top of sky pilot isn't "bold" it's a possible mistake waiting to happen and one that isn't very obvious while on lead. I never even thought i would deck until the person who i think will place the bolt mentioned it and i went huh.. that is quite a ways.

Honestly i would be fine with it either way.. personally. I just hate narrow minded tools who have no experience with the route and will never climb it but want to be irritating


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By Jay Knower
Administrator
From Campton, NH
Mar 12, 2009
Technosurfing, Rumney. Photo by Seth Hamel.

Ben Lyon wrote:
...nevertheless, you called it...you'll not be seeing me at Rumney (you'll get over it somehow)...but I'll be looking for a pard'ner for Whitehorse and Cathedral at some point this year...takers?


Ben, it's too bad that you're not going to stop by Rumney on your trip to NH. I think the variety of climbing in NH is one of its greatest attributes. Many, many people who climb trad at places like Cathedral and Whitehorse also climb sport at Rumney. It's pretty cool to spend one day on an intricate crack climb at Cathedral, and another day on an overhanging bolted route. Oh well, it's your loss.


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By Brian Rhode
From Boston, MA
Mar 19, 2009

This route has a bolt before its short lateral crux with no bolt immediately following as you move through a 5.8 or so move to the stance at the first of the upper pins. Spicy, but are you really going to deck if you come unglued while clipping? Shake out after the crux, then head up the spicy bit and clip, after that it's very unlikely you'd fall off.


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By Jake D.
From Northeast
Mar 19, 2009

Yea, That's how you SHOULD do it. But for a simple fix to eliminate the possibility of someone getting really screwed up on that ledge. one bolt is totally worth it. You don't need the first bolt on Social outcast either but it's there and most clip it. I skip bolts all over Rumney that are not necessary for me but on routes at my limit i'm clipping it all.


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 19, 2009
Cool movement on this line

Jake D. wrote:
Yea, That's how you SHOULD do it. But for a simple fix to eliminate the possibility of someone getting really screwed up on that ledge. one bolt is totally worth it. You don't need the first bolt on Social outcast either but it's there and most clip it. I skip bolts all over Rumney that are not necessary for me but on routes at my limit i'm clipping it all.


very well said jake, some could argue clip-a-dee-do-da doent need bolts because parts are fourth class but lets be honest that route wouldnt be as awesome without the bolts


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By E thatcher
From Plymouth/ North Conway (NH)
Mar 22, 2009
First ascent of the metal arches in my school library...Holderness School

matthewWallace wrote:
very well said jake, some could argue clip-a-dee-do-da doent need bolts because parts are fourth class but lets be honest that route wouldnt be as awesome without the bolts



Cause then you wouldn't have as many to skip when scrambling up it in tevas for a lunch break?!?


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By matthewWallace
From plymouth, nh
Mar 22, 2009
Cool movement on this line

E thatcher wrote:
Cause then you wouldn't have as many to skip when scrambling up it in tevas for a lunch break?!?


now thats funny...


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