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Removing someone elses anchors..
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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

just curious if its considered wrong for removing a loose rappel anchor from a climb i was recently going to toprope from. after i clipped into a fixed anchor at the top of a run i noticed it was loose, so i tried to tighten it, but the sleeve inside the rock was still loose. i ended up taking the bolt and clip with welded rappel rings. id gladly return it to its owner, but thought it was unsafe to leave it for someone else to fall on...


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By Ian Stewart
Nov 15, 2013

Am I right to assume there was another bolt at the anchor that was fine? If so I would have just left it as is and posted somewhere on here (eg. condition update) that the bolt was loose. If it was that loose it would have been obvious to the next party, who could decide on their own if they want to trust the other single bolt. Meanwhile if you left the bolt, when somebody with the right tools decided to go out and fix it then the bolt would still be there to be reused/etc. instead of having to fetch it back from you.


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

true. there was one other anchor next to it, and another one that would have been too far away to be used with it. the only thing i was worried about was if someone that either didnt check it or someone that didnt know what to look for would use it. it was over a 70+ foot cliff. so the next question would be do i go stick it back in, leave a note and hope it stays and that no one uses it, and hope nobody gets hurt?


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Nov 15, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

You found it and didn't trust/use it, right?


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

no didnt use it. i had started setting everything up and when i went to tug everything to test it i noticed it. even after tightening the bolt it still seemed like the sleeve wiggled


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By The Call Of K2 Lou
From Squamish, BC
Nov 15, 2013
A reasonable likeness of this user.

Someone else may not have checked it, so for safety's sake it's probably best that you pulled it. IMO.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Nov 15, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

josh backel wrote:
no didnt use it. i had started setting everything up and when i went to tug everything to test it i noticed it. even after tightening the bolt it still seemed like the sleeve wiggled


You misread my post. You found it and DID NOT use it. There is no reason to think someone else will behave otherwise, and if they do, it's on them, not you. Ian is exactly correct.


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

yea i found it after i had already clipped in to everything, and as i weighted it i noticed how loose it was. i was probably just lucky i wasnt over the edge when i did.


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By Daniel Winder
Nov 15, 2013

You pulled a bolt out with your fingers? Then that's booty.


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

i guess i just didnt put that much thought into until after i had already pulled it and was on the way home. my logic was to pull it just in case it wasnt as obvious to another person who may have soley clipped into just the loose one. maybe they wouldve noticed maybe not. it would be a shame to see someone get hurt just because they should "decide on their own safety"


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

haha yea daniel, a good solid 300 lbs of rock came with it


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By rocknice2
From Montreal, Quebec
Nov 15, 2013
BD ice tool fusion2

josh backel wrote:
but the sleeve inside the rock was still loose..


How did you manage to see or feel the sleeve inside the rock?
I think you mean, you tightened the bolt but it didn't clamp down on the hanger. Is this more accurate? If this is the case the hole was probably drilled too shallow and the bolt can't go deep enough.
Not the best anchor but not the worst either.

Where is it? On which rout


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By Bruce Hildenbrand
Nov 15, 2013

Please post a picture of the bolt.


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By Sdm1568
From Ca
Nov 15, 2013
Mt Whitney April

Use a piece of white tape and write a note that says.........
........
........
........
Wait for it.....
.....
Yer Gonna Die!!!!!


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By Sdm1568
From Ca
Nov 15, 2013
Mt Whitney April

Then as mentioned.... Someone with the right tools can fix it because the pieces are already there.


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By jb86
Nov 15, 2013

rocknice2- i was able to tighten it down the whole way to where the clip wouldnt spin on the bolt, but even then i could still wiggle the whole unit slightly inside the rock.
bruce- cant post a pic right now. possibly later
sdm1568-you're right, someone with the right tools could fix it. hell i could probably evn take my hammer drill and fix it the next time i go out.
so you guys suggest i just put it back with a note and hope its not used until someone fixes it?


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Nov 15, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

I wish all climbers who aren't already familiar would study up on the various kinds of bolts and not go around blindly trusting them or believing that every spinning hanger is a death trap.


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By matt c.
Nov 15, 2013

wait i'm confused. i think his post says that he can wiggle a bolt after it is tightened. he are not talking about a spinner. he is talking that the bolt moves, demonstrating a structural problem. am ai wrong? Isn't ok to pull an unsafe anchors with the intention of replacing them?


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Nov 15, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

I wasn't saying what he did was wrong. It depends on the type of bolt and exactly what is going on with it, which isn't clear to me. I am all for people being proactive and removing dangerous fixed gear if it is warranted.


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By Ian Stewart
Nov 15, 2013

I wouldn't consider a loose anchor bolt to be dangerous at all if the other one is still solid. Even a loose bolt will hold in most cases as long as it's a downward pull, which is the typical situation for an anchor. Personally I'd still rather be clipped into a good bolt and a questionable bolt than to trust a single bolt. Heck, I'd prefer a loose bolt to no bolt in almost any situation...I've clipped a few questionable bolts on lead before, that's for sure.

josh backel wrote:
haha yea daniel, a good solid 300 lbs of rock came with it


Wait...what?


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By Gunkiemike
Nov 15, 2013

josh backel wrote:
haha yea daniel, a good solid 300 lbs of rock came with it


So... this is a troll?

If it's not, identify the cliff and specific route ASAP so the situation can be properly remedied.


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By Gunkiemike
Nov 15, 2013

M Sprague wrote:
I wish all climbers who aren't already familiar would study up on the various kinds of bolts and not go around blindly trusting them or believing that every spinning hanger is a death trap.


If this whole thing isn't a troll, then I say the OP is definitely not too familiar with hardware. Consider - he says this was at the top of "a run", and he pulled the bolt and "the clip". Mega-noob or annoying troll?


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Nov 15, 2013

If it's unsafe, I say yank.

It is unclear if it was unsafe though.

Food for thought, if one anchor bolt was put in so badly as to be unsafe, how good was the single one that you did use?


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By splitclimber
Nov 19, 2013

what route already?

if it in the MP database post up under the route entry

I would have left it in place


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By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Nov 19, 2013
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012

Really? if a bolt can be removed by hand it should be. it's one thing to have a loose nut that can be unthreaded, but if the whole fucking thing comes out in your hand it shouldn't stay there.


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By Tom Mulholland
From #1 Cheese Producing State!
Nov 19, 2013
Whiskey-a-Go-Go

Seems pretty clear he means that the actual bolt wiggles back in forth in the rock. He tightened down the nut, but the bolt still wiggled, so he took the nut and the hanger off.

Ian Stewart wrote:
I wouldn't consider a loose anchor bolt to be dangerous at all if the other one is still solid. Even a loose bolt will hold in most cases as long as it's a downward pull, which is the typical situation for an anchor.


Well, this is only sort of true. If the anchors are at the top of a cliff, and someone lowers over the edge, there's quite a bit of outward force. Also, if the anchors are basically a hanging belay, it's pretty normal to push out from the cliff to manage the rope and set up the rappel - again, lots of outward force.

I probably would have removed it, too. I don't trust gumbies to not kill themselves.


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