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Removing someone elses anchors..
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Nov 15, 2013
jb86
Joined Nov 12, 2013
0 points
Nov 15, 2013
Am I right to assume there was another bolt at the anchor that was fine? If so I would have just left it as is and posted somewhere on here (eg. condition update) that the bolt was loose. If it was that loose it would have been obvious to the next party, who could decide on their own if they want to trust the other single bolt. Meanwhile if you left the bolt, when somebody with the right tools decided to go out and fix it then the bolt would still be there to be reused/etc. instead of having to fetch it back from you. Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Administrator
Nov 15, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
You found it and didn't trust/use it, right? Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,009 points
Nov 15, 2013
A reasonable likeness of this user.
Someone else may not have checked it, so for safety's sake it's probably best that you pulled it. IMO. The Call Of K2 Lou
From Squamish, BC
Joined Mar 30, 2012
28 points
Administrator
Nov 15, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
josh backel wrote:
no didnt use it. i had started setting everything up and when i went to tug everything to test it i noticed it. even after tightening the bolt it still seemed like the sleeve wiggled


You misread my post. You found it and DID NOT use it. There is no reason to think someone else will behave otherwise, and if they do, it's on them, not you. Ian is exactly correct.
Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,009 points
Nov 15, 2013
You pulled a bolt out with your fingers? Then that's booty. Daniel Winder
Joined Jul 13, 2009
109 points
Nov 15, 2013
BD Fuel
josh backel wrote:
but the sleeve inside the rock was still loose..


How did you manage to see or feel the sleeve inside the rock?
I think you mean, you tightened the bolt but it didn't clamp down on the hanger. Is this more accurate? If this is the case the hole was probably drilled too shallow and the bolt can't go deep enough.
Not the best anchor but not the worst either.

Where is it? On which rout
rocknice2
From Montreal, Quebec
Joined Nov 27, 2006
2,993 points
Nov 15, 2013
Please post a picture of the bolt. Bruce Hildenbrand
Joined Apr 18, 2003
828 points
Nov 15, 2013
Mt Whitney April
Use a piece of white tape and write a note that says.........
........
........
........
Wait for it.....
.....
Yer Gonna Die!!!!!
Sdm1568
From Ca
Joined Aug 7, 2012
95 points
Nov 15, 2013
Mt Whitney April
Then as mentioned.... Someone with the right tools can fix it because the pieces are already there. Sdm1568
From Ca
Joined Aug 7, 2012
95 points
Administrator
Nov 15, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
I wish all climbers who aren't already familiar would study up on the various kinds of bolts and not go around blindly trusting them or believing that every spinning hanger is a death trap. M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,510 points
Nov 15, 2013
wait i'm confused. i think his post says that he can wiggle a bolt after it is tightened. he are not talking about a spinner. he is talking that the bolt moves, demonstrating a structural problem. am ai wrong? Isn't ok to pull an unsafe anchors with the intention of replacing them? matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
93 points
Administrator
Nov 15, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
I wasn't saying what he did was wrong. It depends on the type of bolt and exactly what is going on with it, which isn't clear to me. I am all for people being proactive and removing dangerous fixed gear if it is warranted. M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,510 points
Nov 15, 2013
I wouldn't consider a loose anchor bolt to be dangerous at all if the other one is still solid. Even a loose bolt will hold in most cases as long as it's a downward pull, which is the typical situation for an anchor. Personally I'd still rather be clipped into a good bolt and a questionable bolt than to trust a single bolt. Heck, I'd prefer a loose bolt to no bolt in almost any situation...I've clipped a few questionable bolts on lead before, that's for sure.

josh backel wrote:
haha yea daniel, a good solid 300 lbs of rock came with it


Wait...what?
Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Nov 15, 2013
josh backel wrote:
haha yea daniel, a good solid 300 lbs of rock came with it


So... this is a troll?

If it's not, identify the cliff and specific route ASAP so the situation can be properly remedied.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
1,716 points
Nov 15, 2013
M Sprague wrote:
I wish all climbers who aren't already familiar would study up on the various kinds of bolts and not go around blindly trusting them or believing that every spinning hanger is a death trap.


If this whole thing isn't a troll, then I say the OP is definitely not too familiar with hardware. Consider - he says this was at the top of "a run", and he pulled the bolt and "the clip". Mega-noob or annoying troll?
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
1,716 points
Nov 15, 2013
If it's unsafe, I say yank.

It is unclear if it was unsafe though.

Food for thought, if one anchor bolt was put in so badly as to be unsafe, how good was the single one that you did use?
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion
From Denver
Joined Oct 29, 2012
16 points
Nov 19, 2013
what route already?

if it in the MP database post up under the route entry

I would have left it in place
splitclimber
Joined Jan 22, 2007
54 points
Nov 19, 2013
on top of the RNWF June 2012
Really? if a bolt can be removed by hand it should be. it's one thing to have a loose nut that can be unthreaded, but if the whole fucking thing comes out in your hand it shouldn't stay there. Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Joined Feb 8, 2010
217 points
Nov 19, 2013
Whiskey-a-Go-Go
Seems pretty clear he means that the actual bolt wiggles back in forth in the rock. He tightened down the nut, but the bolt still wiggled, so he took the nut and the hanger off.

Ian Stewart wrote:
I wouldn't consider a loose anchor bolt to be dangerous at all if the other one is still solid. Even a loose bolt will hold in most cases as long as it's a downward pull, which is the typical situation for an anchor.


Well, this is only sort of true. If the anchors are at the top of a cliff, and someone lowers over the edge, there's quite a bit of outward force. Also, if the anchors are basically a hanging belay, it's pretty normal to push out from the cliff to manage the rope and set up the rappel - again, lots of outward force.

I probably would have removed it, too. I don't trust gumbies to not kill themselves.
Tom Mulholland
From #1 Cheese Producing State!
Joined Apr 16, 2010
85 points
Nov 19, 2013
...
IMO if you're going to remove it, then you should replace it.

As already mentioned. It would be a downward pull. Even if totally loose, it's still not going to come out.

And also as mentioned, any party coming upon it could decide for themselves if they want to use it or not.

Now if someone goes up, there's only one anchor. Right? How is that safer?
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,394 points
Nov 19, 2013
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gat...
So there is now a single anchor - if a climbing party should have enough knowledge to inspect a bad anchor and not rap on it should they not also have enough knowledge to be able to get themselves down regardless?

In this case the issue came from it sounds like a poor install, what if it was from rock fall and was totally unusable? No real difference.

As for removing it. I removed a set of anchors some one did a poor job of installing - then walked off and use a different set of anchors. I dropped all the bits off at the local shop and they got back to the original person. I heard he was not happy about it. I was happy that someone did not trust the anchors and die.
Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Joined Jul 6, 2007
1,132 points
Nov 19, 2013
the man was smart
dropped off all the bits....

maybe we should start requiring pro guides take people climbing from now on, its not something you can just trust people to do safely without proper training eh?
T Roper
From VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
1,056 points
Nov 19, 2013
Whiskey-a-Go-Go
TR purist wrote:
maybe we should start requiring pro guides take people climbing from now on, its not something you can just trust people to do safely without proper training eh?


Nah, I don't mean to that level. They can go climbing and get hurt if they want to. But, for example, if I come across a death block, I'll chalk an "X" onto it. Even though an experienced climber should always spot the death block before touching it, even when pumped and thrashing.

Locker wrote:
IMO if you're going to remove it, then you should replace it.


Yes, good point. If this were my local crag, I would definitely replace it. If I was on a road trip and had no gear to fix it, I don't know what I'd do.
Tom Mulholland
From #1 Cheese Producing State!
Joined Apr 16, 2010
85 points
Nov 19, 2013
slide mtn, 4180 catskills
climber darwinism... Jesse Newton
From catskills
Joined Dec 11, 2011
146 points
Nov 19, 2013
don't take bolts out of the rock. if you're unsure, let the local gear shop know and they'll get the word out. or post it on mountain project. it sounds like it was probably fine. if you don't have a wrench, you can't get a bolt tight enough to not move a bit in the hole. if you had to unscrew the bolt to get it out of the rock, it wasn't a bad bolt, it was just loose.

an iffy bolt is better than no bolt. and if the other bolt is good, the iffy bolt is just a backup anyway.

don't take bolts. seriously.
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,394 points


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