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Removing draws from a route

Original Post
beaker · · Novi, MI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 11

Hi All,

What's the best way to remove all your quick draws from a route while cleaning/repelling down when the route isn't straight vertical, but instead has some horizontal traverses in it?

This past weekend, my friend was climbing a sport route which climbed more like a diagonal line, heading up and then to the right. The anchors were about 30ft over horizonally from the start. After he completed the route, he started to repel down and remove the draws from the route, however the further down he got, the further he was from the route/bolts. We ended up getting them by me pulling on the rope going through the draws to pull him over to it, him unclipping it from the bolt, which then sends him tarzan swinging away... repeat for about 5 draws.

Other than looking ridiculous, we were lucky that it was a pretty open space that the swinging didn't put him in any danger, but I could see if it wasn't as open, swinging could be an issue.

I must assume there's a better way to clean all your gear off a non-vertical route. Suggestions?

Thanks!

will ar · · Vermont · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 290

When lowering off clip a spare quickdraw from your belay loop to the other strand of rope, it will keep you close to the bolts so that you can easily remove your quickdraws.

Craig T · · Chicago, IL · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

To add, be careful at the last (first?) bolt. If you're using the quickdraw method (sometimes called "tramming"), you can a) unclip your tram, unclip the last quickdraw, and go flying, b) unclip the quickdraw but not the tram, then you go flying while the belayer gets dragged in the dirt behind you, or c) bypass the last quickdraw, leave it up, then retrieve if through other means (bouldering up to it, fancy stick clip tricks, etc). I recommend c unless you really like swinging, or for some reason really want to find yourself in a pile of dirt with your belayer.

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

Have someone 2nd the route.
Lower don't rap.
Tram in

James Hicks · · Fruita, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 131
Craig T wrote:To add, be careful at the last (first?) bolt. If you're using the quickdraw method (sometimes called "tramming"), you can a) unclip your tram, unclip the last quickdraw, and go flying, b) unclip the quickdraw but not the tram, then you go flying while the belayer gets dragged in the dirt behind you, or c) bypass the last quickdraw, leave it up, then retrieve if through other means (bouldering up to it, fancy stick clip tricks, etc). I recommend c unless you really like swinging, or for some reason really want to find yourself in a pile of dirt with your belayer.
^ This! I have seen a belayer get thrown off of the side of the crag and down the hill because the climber being lowered (off of a really overhung route) didn't unclip the tram before unclipping the last draw.
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240

First of all, don't repel the route. Don't rappel, either. Lower.

Second, as others have said, don't unclip the last draw without unclipping your tram first, or you will yank your belayer off, you'll both go flying, and hilarity will ensue.

Third, it is often a good idea to clip a draw or two from your harness's belay loop, into the draw that is attached to the second-to-last bolt that you're cleaning (usually the second one that you clipped on the way up). Once you are clipped in directly to this draw, have your belayer give you a lot of slack, and reach down and unclip the bottom draw (first bolt of the route) below you. This will often help you take less of a swing, and in general really relieves the hardest draw cleaning.

beaker · · Novi, MI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 11

Awesome! Thanks all!

So, I take it that it's not bad to lower a climber off the fixed gear anchors in these situations? I've always learned to rappel down a route in order to reduce any wear on the anchor rings.

Alvaro Arnal · · Aspen, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,535

In most cases it's acceptable and proper for the last person climbing and cleaning the route to lower directly through the anchor. This is the preferred method; it's safer than rappelling and as noted above easier to clean the route on the way down.

What's not acceptable is to rig your toprope directly through the anchor and have multiple people climb on it. This is the scenario that causes accelerated wear on the anchor and is bad form.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

Generally with sport routes, if there are good heavy steel rings, clippies, mussy hooks or biners and the anchor is situated so your rope will not be sawing over an edge, it is best to be lowered. That is what the anchors are designed for, unlike some trad anchors. NEVER lower off of aluminum rap rings (those things should really be abolished for permanent anchors. Use stainless steel if using rings). Worried about wearing the anchor? Donate to local folks who do anchor replacements and buy some yourself to replace ones that you find that are worn or missing.

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
beaker wrote:Awesome! Thanks all! So, I take it that it's not bad to lower a climber off the fixed gear anchors in these situations? I've always learned to rappel down a route in order to reduce any wear on the anchor rings.
The gear is there to be used, and "reasonable use" of fixed gear most certainly includes lowering through it. Lowering has many advantages, including speed, convenience, safety, and ease of cleaning. All experienced sport climbers, including those who put that fixed gear in, advocate lowering instead of rappelling. The idea of rappelling to save the fixed gear is somewhat out of date, and is nowadays advocated only by gumbies and the crusty old school (basically the the same thing, but I digress...). The current school of thought is to use the fixed gear, and actively replace it when it wears out. If you feel a pang of guilt over wearing out the fixed gear, keep a couple of steel quicklinks or oval biners in the sport climbing pack, and do your part in maintaining the fixed gear by occasionally replacing worn-out lowering links or biners. Or donate some $$ to the local anchor replacement fund.
George Bracksieck · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 3,393

Unless the lowered climber trams in, unclipping the lowest bolt of a traversing, diagonaling or overhanging pitch could suddenly generate a lot of slack, dropping the climber to the ground. Even if trammed in, the climber could still hit the ground after the belayer is dragged across the ground.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
JCM wrote:...The current school of thought is to use the fixed gear, and actively replace it when it wears out. If you feel a pang of guilt over wearing out the fixed gear, keep a couple of steel quicklinks...and do your part in maintaining the fixed gear by occasionally replacing worn-out lowering links.
This.
cfuttner · · Chicago, IL · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 5
JCM wrote: All experienced sport climbers, including those who put that fixed gear in, advocate lowering instead of rappelling. The idea of rappelling to save the fixed gear is somewhat out of date, and is nowadays advocated only by gumbies and the crusty old school (basically the the same thing, but I digress...).
This thread will now deteriorate into 20 pages of flamethrowing in 3....2....1
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
cfuttner wrote: This thread will now deteriorate into 20 pages of flamethrowing in 3....2....1
I sure hope so. I could use some Monday entertainment.
beaker · · Novi, MI · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 11
cfuttner wrote: This thread will now deteriorate into 20 pages of flamethrowing in 3....2....1
Lol. Please don't :)

I appreciate all the responses I've gotten and did not want this thread to turn into a tangential debate. :)
Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240
beaker wrote:I've always learned to rappel down a route in order to reduce any wear on the anchor rings.
Even rapping puts wear on the anchors. It's not much, but over time it can be a lot.

The best way to minimize this wear is to have the last climber in the group unclip the draws and rope from the anchor, and then jump to his death. It's really the only responsible thing to do.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
beaker wrote:I've always learned to rappel down a route in order to reduce any wear on the anchor rings.
If you are on a route with traverses or severely overhung, please just have your totally cool partner lower you off. It is a lot of hassle to clean a route on rappel alone and you can easily screw it up.
Mikey Seaman · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 5

I'm
Not trying to throw flames, but isn't "current school of thought" a consensus of what people say and do? I almost always rap. To save my rope and to save my gear. I don't do a ton of sport climbing, by when I do, I never mind lowering after cleaning an anchor.

Regarding the comments about "replacing the gear when it gets worn out", it seems to me that most people just "use and abuse and hope someone replaces it". This is irresponsible and not te behavior we should be encouraging. It's faster and more convenient to lower, yes. But I don't think justifies lazy behavior.

When I climb with a partner on a sport route, one guy leads, sets a 2 draw anchor, and lowers. Next guy leads, cleans anchor, raps, we move on to the next climb.

Jorden Kass · · Belmont, MA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0
Maurice Chaunders wrote: When I climb with a partner on a sport route, one guy leads, sets a 2 draw anchor, and lowers. Next guy leads, cleans anchor, raps, we move on to the next climb.
This only works if the second can climb at the same level. This doesn't always happen and I have been on both ends, climbing with somebody much better that I can't follow on their hard lead and leading with someone who has trouble following mine.
redlude97 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 5
Maurice Chaunders wrote:about "replacing the gear when it gets worn out", it seems to me that most people just "use and abuse and hope someone replaces it". This is irresponsible and not te behavior we should be encouraging.
It's not abuse if that is the developer's intent for the gear he puts in. Developers in many area install anchors expecting and wanting people to lower off of them and do so themselves when I run into them at the crag.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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