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Releasable hitch or way to retrieve rope?
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By Aaron Conway
Mar 18, 2013
So all I have to do is rappel from a 30ft wall that's not even that vertical maybe 70-80 degrees for a trail in zion national park. There are already bolts installed so I have to hook up a carabiner and hook up my rope then when I'm the last to rappel I have to be able to retrieve my rope from the bottom. How could I do that? Thanks for your time.

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By Ryan N
From San Louis Obispo
Mar 18, 2013
RJN
If there is bolts, why not bring a leaver biner and just pull rope thru the bottom? Or are you trying to rap on a single strand? If your canyoneering an established route, chances are your thinking too hard about it.

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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Mar 18, 2013
If there are bolts, are they equipped with rings? A regular double strand rappel sounds like the answer here. Just pull the rope when you're done.

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By randy88fj62
Mar 18, 2013
Thunderbolt Peak in the Palisades
Aaron,
If you're asking this question here then you should probably seek professional training or at least training from a trusted friend with more climbing experience.

That being said; you can rappel single strand and carry a lightweight pull cord for the other end to reduce bulk and weight.

Using standard canyoneering method, block the main rappel rope with a locking biner and clove hitch. Tie lightweight pull cord to rope with an overhand or figure 8. This method assumes there are rappel rings that are SMALLER than the carabiner so it won't pull through. People have died when using a biner block and it goes through unknown hardwear store stuff.

Other option is as stated above. Carry a long enough rope to double strand it "toss and go" style.

Spend a weekend before hand practicing your setup and make sure you are being safe.

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By Larry S
Mar 18, 2013
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
Many of us are happy to give out advice but it can scare us a bit to answer real basic questions. There's alot of knowledge you need for climbing (or in your case, rappeling & anchoring) and we don't want to end up giving you just enough information to get yourself in trouble. Many of us have witnessed people at the crags in this situation, who don't know just how much they don't know.

For an analogy, it's like a guy who knows just enough about electricity to fix a bad outlet, which later catches his house on fire. We don't want to make you feel like you know everything you need to know.

That out of the way, at a typical bolted anchor that's meant for rappelling off of you will find with rings, chain links, carabiners, or some other large rope bearing surface. You thread your rope thru this and toss both ends down to the ground. You put both strands thru your belay device and rappel on both. Once at the ground, you pull on strand to retrieve you rope.

Here is a good thread about typical bolt anchors to rappel from - mountainproject.com/v/sport-cl...

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By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Mar 18, 2013
are you talking about the subway? if so it is pretty easy to let some folks rap a single fixed line and then downclimb 5.5 or so

all of the other "raps" are fixed with handlines

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By aaron hope
From Walnut Creek, CA
Mar 18, 2013
Staying Warm on South Face of Washington Column
I respectfully disagree with Denny. I've done the subway and its very dangerous to down climb the last rappel. Especially for an inexperienced climber

Keep in mind that there was recently a rappelling death in Zion's Subway. And this guy had apparently taken professional class to learn how to rappel.

bangordailynews.com/2012/09/21...

supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1...

Aaron, what you should do is purchase some how to climb and rappel books by Craig Leubben. Then take a class with a professional instructor. Then practice before heading into the back-country. Rappelling is statistically the most dangerous aspects of being in the mountains (or canyons) even for experienced rock climbers. There are a lot of nuances to rappelling (and canyoneering) that you should learn.

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By aaron hope
From Walnut Creek, CA
Mar 18, 2013
Staying Warm on South Face of Washington Column
Also, I didn't encounter any fixed handlines when I did the subway. Don't depend on them.

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By Aaron Conway
Mar 18, 2013
Thank you very much for all the reply's. Yes I am doing subway and yes I have rappelling experience. My father was force recon and taught me how to rappel so that's not a problem. I think I should clarify my question. I will not be "rappelling". I won't be wearing a harness or hook into any device. I intend on down climbing all of it. Good or bad idea? I was wondering if there is a knot that I could tie that would be safer than the current setup I have. Here's the plan and let me know if it seems safe, especially the people that have already done the subway. Your input is extra valuable. I was going to get to the middle of my 75ft rope, tie a slip, run a bite of one strand through the carabiner attached to the bolt and back through my slipknot. Then stick a carabiner on the bite so it can't go through the slip knot just in case. Then i'll be the last down and i'll unhook the biner, downclimb and pull it all loose with the other strand. I've used this method before and it seems to work great. Other recommendations? Should I be using full gear? I just didn't want to carry all that. Also, I apologize if this is posted in the wrong place.

P.S. The man that died was 74 with a 61 year old wife incapable of helping. I'm 21 and very fit and so are all my friends. We won't attempt it without being safe of course though. That's why I'm here.

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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Mar 18, 2013
modern man
lolZZZZZZ

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By EricSchmidt
Mar 18, 2013
Aaron Conway wrote:
My father was force recon and taught me how to rappel so that's not a problem.


hahaha oh say no more... Those guys are the EXPERTS on rappelling. Why are you even asking us?

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By Aaron Conway
Mar 18, 2013
My father is excellent at climbing. He is also excellent at drinking. His drinking skills may even surpass his climbing skills, especially when they are combined. Needless to say I don't ask him any more questions. Also, what's with the lolllzzzzzlzzlz? I'll start another post on tips for climbing the subway's obstacles. That would have been smarter.

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By EricSchmidt
Mar 18, 2013
Aaron Conway wrote:
My father is excellent at climbing. He is also excellent at drinking. His drinking skills may even surpass his climbing skills, especially when they are combined. Needless to say I don't ask him any more questions. Also, what's with the lolllzzzzzlzzlz? I'll start another post on tips for climbing the subway's obstacles. That would have been smarter.


I think he was implying that he was laughing out loud and what you posted then following asleep by your long boring story. Get to the point already.

It is clear you dont know how to safely rappel. Yes you could probably do what you are describing and get away with it but you could also just as easily end up dead or end up killing one of your friends.

Go get a book and read up on the subject then come back with specific questions. You have a long way to go.

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By Kirk B.
From Boise, ID
Mar 18, 2013
belay slaving on some route I forgot the name of way right of Bloody Fingers.
Dad can hook you up on that one, Man. Seriously.

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By M LaViolette Jr.
From The Past
Mar 18, 2013
Wolverine on Predator (5.13b) Rumney.
All you need to know right here bro.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uWGcTvHt...

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By AnthonyM
Mar 18, 2013
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir
Aaron Conway wrote:
I will not be "rappelling". I won't be wearing a harness or hook into any device. I intend on down climbing all of it. Good or bad idea? I was wondering if there is a knot that I could tie that would be safer than the current setup I have. Here's the plan and let me know if it seems safe, especially the people that have already done the subway.


So you could just rappel down it but instead are choosing to do an "assisted" down-climb???

Why would you want to down-climb when you would be better off rappelling down it?

Please explain...

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Mar 18, 2013
tanuki
I think this thread could use some Eva...


--- Invalid image id: 108046800 ---

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By aaron hope
From Walnut Creek, CA
Mar 18, 2013
Staying Warm on South Face of Washington Column
I see what you are trying to do, but I don't recommend it. You'd likely be OK on all the rappels except for the last one. I think the fatal flaw in your thinking is that the last rappel is less than vertical. It isn't. look at this picture of it:

panoramio.com/photo/44739457

It drops off the last 15/20 feet or so. that would be difficult to "hand-over-hand" down a rope. You wouldn't die if you fell, but you could easily break an ankle. There are ways to avoid carrying a full harness and ATC, but you would really have to know what you're doing.

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By EricSchmidt
Mar 18, 2013
NC Rock Climber wrote:
I think this thread could use some Eva...


Meh she has a man face, no thanks.

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By Jon Powell
From LAWRENCEVILLE GEORGIA
Mar 18, 2013
stone depot
EricSchmidt wrote:
Meh she has a man face, no thanks.

Who is looking at her face?

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By EricSchmidt
Mar 18, 2013
Jon Powell wrote:
Who is looking at her face?


Generally I look at a girls face when deciding if she is attractive or not....

Apparently your standards are lower and you will do anything with a butt.

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By Jon Powell
From LAWRENCEVILLE GEORGIA
Mar 18, 2013
stone depot
EricSchmidt wrote:
Generally I look at a girls face when deciding if she is attractive or not.... Apparently your standards are lower and you will do anything with a butt.

Boy I walked right into that one. Well played sir lol

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By GLD
Mar 18, 2013
Check a canyoning forum for tips and instructions like this exact problem.

canyoneeringusa.com
canyoncollective.com

short answer is if it's 30 ft, get a 60ft rope and run it directly through the bolts with rings. I don't personally know those bolts but generally that's the trick. Or bring some cord/webbing and a rap ring. Equalize and isolate between the bolts and leave the cord and rap rings behind. My bet is there will already be something there since this is a very popular route.

All that enabling done, it sounds like you are very inexperienced at building anchors and some basic canyon skills, though you may be proficient at rappelling. There are several courses available and if you PM me I can recommend them for you (note I don't work as a guide or sell any gear). Shit, if you post on canyon collective you might find someone experienced who would like to come along on your permit.

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By GLD
Mar 18, 2013
Aaron Conway wrote:
P.S. The man that died was 74 with a 61 year old wife incapable of helping. I'm 21 and very fit and so are all my friends. We won't attempt it without being safe of course though. That's why I'm here.


Yeah, if you've never practiced vertical rescue it's almost next to impossible to pull off if not impossible if you don't have the tools to do so, sometimes it's not even possible when you have the tools. I don't care how young or fit you are.

What if you have rappelled already and they are now stuck and unconscious. Think how you would ascend a rope, lock yourself off, get the individual off the rope and down to the ground without dropping them. What if they rappel first? Do you have a second rope to descend next to them, lock off, get them off their rope, onto yours, and the skill to descend with an unconscious person now on your rope? What if you don't have a second rope, do you know how to descend a weighted rope? I'm not being a dick, I'm pointing out very real issues and difficulties that you may not have thought of.

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By AnthonyM
Mar 18, 2013
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir
Yer gonna die.

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By BScallout
Mar 18, 2013
Aaron Conway wrote:
Thank you very much for all the reply's. Yes I am doing subway and yes I have rappelling experience. My father was force recon and taught me how to rappel so that's not a problem. I think I should clarify my question. I will not be "rappelling". I won't be wearing a harness or hook into any device. I intend on down climbing all of it. Good or bad idea? I was wondering if there is a knot that I could tie that would be safer than the current setup I have. Here's the plan and let me know if it seems safe, especially the people that have already done the subway. Your input is extra valuable. I was going to get to the middle of my 75ft rope, tie a slip, run a bite of one strand through the carabiner attached to the bolt and back through my slipknot. Then stick a carabiner on the bite so it can't go through the slip knot just in case. Then i'll be the last down and i'll unhook the biner, downclimb and pull it all loose with the other strand. I've used this method before and it seems to work great. Other recommendations? Should I be using full gear? I just didn't want to carry all that. Also, I apologize if this is posted in the wrong place. P.S. The man that died was 74 with a 61 year old wife incapable of helping. I'm 21 and very fit and so are all my friends. We won't attempt it without being safe of course though. That's why I'm here.


troll

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