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Reinforcing a hold
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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Sep 23, 2012
Moby dick 5.11-

So I just bolted this new project and there is a flake with dubious solidity. I crowbared the first layer but feel that the rest could eventually pop out. Anyways, I want to reinforce it. What's the best glue/cement? Also, I'd like to hide it as much as possible so that it's not apparent, any tricks?

Thanks,

P.S.
This is not an ethical debate. I'm going to do it, so I just want to do it the best way possible.


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Sep 23, 2012

Probably glue-in bolt glue of some sort.

Unfortunately alot of reinforcement requires you to glue the outside of the hold as well- if you have to do that, go for the cement that matches the rock the best.

if you're going to do it, focus on aesthetics as much as strength- i hate to see glued holds, it can totally ruin a climb for me. The best jobs i've seen are the ones that someone has had to point out to me.


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By Jim Titt
From Germany
Sep 24, 2012

The standard product for this is Sikadur 33 https://www.whitecap.com/static/pages/dot/pdf/ohio/Sika%20Si>>>
The mortar used for normal glue-ins works sometimes but isnīt so good though Iīve used plenty of it in my time, it isnīt so sticky as it isnīt really a glue unlike the Sika.
You donīt say how big the flake is though, hold-size flakes we glue on and the bigger ones we bolt on to the cliff drilling right through the flake and into the solid rock, I make up long wedge bolts for this up to 2 ft long.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Sep 24, 2012
Stabby

As a general rule, any and everything you can get at Home Depot or Lowes is really just pretend shit. They sell glue-in epoxies, but for whatever reason everything they sell there has a bit of suck to it compared to professional outlets. Go to your local White Cap outlet and just make a cash sale. If they ask, just spit out a name from a big contractor in your area, the clerk just needs to fill in that field on the invoice


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Sep 24, 2012
Stoked...

Redhed A7


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By Zappatista
Sep 24, 2012
Book me, officer.

Ah, keepers of the spirit of adventure. The wind in your hair, the clouds race by, and you're sludging Sikaflex all over yourself and the cliff.

It just doesn't get any better than that.


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By J Q
Sep 24, 2012
Me again!

Usa Sika or face the conquences or a shit job. You can put some local dirt on it afterwards so people don't cry.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Sep 24, 2012
Stoked...

Johnny Q - what do you think are the disadvantages of the Redhed A7 over the Sika?

Just from reading the specs the psi's on the red head are 4000+ (both tension and shear) and the stuff bonds much more readily in a greater variety of conditions. While the Sika is only 3000psi after two days... if I am reading the specs correctly... entirely possible im not these things are confusing.


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By Chris Norfolk
From Fredericton, New Brunswick
Sep 24, 2012
Hello MP.

Dom wrote:
So I just bolted this new project and there is a flake with dubious solidity. I crowbared the first layer but feel that the rest could eventually pop out. Anyways, I want to reinforce it. What's the best glue/cement? Also, I'd like to hide it as much as possible so that it's not apparent, any tricks? Thanks, P.S. This is not an ethical debate. I'm going to do it, so I just want to do it the best way possible.


Dom. What are you up to now?


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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Sep 24, 2012
Moby dick 5.11-

Thanks for the info everyone. Looks like A7 is the way to go. The flake crimp is still pretty solid so I won't be making anything structural to it such as putting glue on the outside, or bolting it, etc.
I want to make this invisible to the untrained eye.

Chris, I just bolted a route in Utopia on Saturday in the rain. Good thing for that overhang. There is a certain flake about a foot long that seems 'solid' but I wouldn't want it to pop in someone's face. The granite on the whole cliff isn't as solid as Cochrane Lane, so reinforcing might be necessary for a few select holds IMO.


Edit: A7 is the way to go for me as I will be installing glue-ins in the same area so could hit two birds with one stone.


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By Eric Whitbeck
Sep 24, 2012

Please be a troll


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By Jeremy Aslaksen
From Albuquerque, NM
Sep 24, 2012

Admin trolls are the best.


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By bruno-cx
Sep 24, 2012
shirtless wonder

Noting wrong with a little a glue to reinforce a few holds here and there.


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By Unassigned User
Sep 24, 2012

bruno-cx wrote:
Noting wrong with a little a glue to reinforce a few holds here and there.


Hey a foot hold chipped in here would be handy too...


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Sep 24, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

A tip if the crack behind a flake is big enough that the glue might run out and make a mess is to get some cheap sticky bread like wonder bread and use it to make a dam. The bread can then be picked out later.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Sep 24, 2012
Stoked...

M Sprague wrote:
A tip if the crack behind a flake is big enough that the glue might run out and make a mess is to get some cheap sticky bread like wonder bread and use it to make a dam. The bread can then be picked out later.


genius... and eaten for lunch!


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By Ryan Palo
From Bend, oregon
Sep 24, 2012
Me

PC7 or Sika.


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Sep 24, 2012
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

I've never reinforced a hold with glue and have nothing against it but why not just go back up with said crowbar and remove the whole flake then rework the sequence?


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Sep 25, 2012
Stoked...

Ryan Palo wrote:
PC7 or Sika.


Mixing putty at the base or mid route on a rope seems pretty messy and difficult to apply... why not just use a glue gun with a large nozzel and some A7?


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Sep 25, 2012
Bucky

Ryan Palo wrote:
PC7


This stuff works great. Yeah, it is a bit of a pain to mix and it is viscous as all hell, but if you are careful and do a good job, PC7 is harder and stronger than granite. Plus, because it is so viscous, you don't have to worry about a drippy mess coming out of your hold and making the wall look like a sh*tty mess. If you do it right, it should be hard for anyone to tell that there is any reinforcement at all. To ensure this, make sure that you have a variety of tools to get the stuff in there well and then carry a bag with sand/rock pieces/lichen to camo the exposed glue over when you are done (if you were careful, there should be a minimal amount of camo'ing to do).

Also, it is super important that you prep the area by cleaning both bonding surfaces before you start glueing. Bring a spray bottle, some brushes etc. and get in there and clean the area. Let it dry a day and then apply your product. One other thing to think about is that sometimes it may be best to carefully remove the hold altogether, clean it well, and then glue it back on. This is sometimes the preferred method because it can often be very difficult to get glue behind the feature you are glueing without either making a total mess or simply not getting enough glue applied to make any difference (or both!!).


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Sep 25, 2012
Bucky

bruno-cx wrote:
Noting wrong with a little a glue to reinforce a few holds here and there.


chufftard wrote:
drive to the rock, drill bolts to rap in, place bolts, scrub off lichen, climb route, leave chalk,spooge up holds with sticky rubber, walk all over the base until it is bare, but never, never comfortize or reinforce a hold. glue makes baby jesus cry.


God damn it you two, we're supposed to be mortal enemies....quit saying sh*t that puts us on the same side (grin).


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Sep 25, 2012

Ask Louie.

There's probably more glue at the Riverside Quarry than any cliff in the US. Whatever he uses seems to work. Although some reinforced holds there have so much glue that the entire top is a surface of glue...makes for a funky experience when you reach up, grab a flat edge and the friction is totally different because you're crimping on glue.

In any case, he has tons of experience over many years, likely has more firsthand knowledge with glue reinforcing than anyone.


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By MountainManny
From Idaho Springs
Sep 25, 2012
One Trad Ass Motherfucker

Andre Dupas wrote:
also using a crobar to pry off flakes is a form of chipping and that is pretty gay also.

Best to ride that flake like a cheap $2 whore as it breaks free and face fucks you...way better call....douche.

Pry away!!!!


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By RNclimber
From Riverside, Ca
Sep 25, 2012
Seconds before onsighting Gun Smoke V3, Joshua Tree bouldering

Will S wrote:
Ask Louie. There's probably more glue at the Riverside Quarry than any cliff in the US. Whatever he uses seems to work. Although some reinforced holds there have so much glue that the entire top is a surface of glue...makes for a funky experience when you reach up, grab a flat edge and the friction is totally different because you're crimping on glue. In any case, he has tons of experience over many years, likely has more firsthand knowledge with glue reinforcing than anyone.


+1


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By J Q
Sep 25, 2012
Me again!

That is why I prefer Sika, it takes texture easily and it feels like sandstone.


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By half-pad-mini-jug
From crauschville
Sep 25, 2012

PC7 is the shit!


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