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By Tom Rangitsch
From Lander, WY
Nov 11, 2012
Finishing Rimfire, 13b, at the Sanctuary in Sinks

Bored at work here tonight and I have been trying to read through the insane amount of posts about project stealing occurring in Arizona. There are a few points that I have found interesting, however, and I would like to get others' opinions.

What sort of route/boulder problem/climb can a person red tag? If you find a rad boulder, scrub the lichen off of it, and get all the pointy rocks out of the landing, is it yours until you send it? How about pure crack routes? Sport climbs? None or all of the above?

My personal thought is that a boulder problem and pure gear protected routes exist before they are found by climbers and as such are not the "vision" of the first ascensionist. On a sport route, the bolter chooses the line to some extent and "creates" a route (hopeful by just providing safety and not by adding holds). Assuming the climber doesn't abandon a sport route halfway through and is actively trying to redpoint it, I think there is some merit in closing a sport climb. There is also the very practical problem of having nothing to hang a red tag on in the case of boulder problems or gear routes.

I mostly sport climb and do quite a bit of new route development. As such I don't have as much invested in bouldering or trad climbing, but I would be pretty pissed off if someone red pointed a route that I found, cleaned, and equipped and was actively trying. I would be curious to here other opinions.


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By Josh Kornish
Nov 11, 2012
The Roach

Pretty much as you said it. Sport routes only.

If you clean a problem or find an unclimbed crack then just keep it on the DL till the send... if the FA means that much to you.


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By prod.
From Boulder, Co
Nov 11, 2012

Haha,

Way back in the day "The Kid" was putting up a new sport route, and Tarbuster soloed it onsite just prior to Kirt finishing it. I believe there was begging involved, can't remember the route. I'll get more details.

Prod.


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By J Q
Nov 11, 2012
Me again!

Prod:

That should mean the bolts got yanked right? Ethics go to the first ascensionist and all. I have a friend who regularly solos easy climbs to keep them from being bolted. It's funny.

Tom:

If the climb is actually bolted, and has a red tag, than you are right. That would clearly be stealing anothers climb.

However, the situation you refer to is more along the lines of:

Can I put chains on a possible climb with no red tag or public info and expect everyone to know what the hell is going on with this climb nine months later?

Does putting one keeper bolt on a wall mark it as my own? For how long is that wall all mine based on that one bolt?


Is there a protocol for leaving chains on a route to say, "hey, I do plan on bolting this thing". And how long should one have to return and finish bolting that climb?


Now these are actually interesting questions concerning the use of our public lands.


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