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Recommended Guidebook for North Carolina
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By Roswell
From Newnan. Ga
Oct 8, 2012
Baby Rosalyn ready to send <br />
Any suggestions and please, no one suggest Dixie Craggers. Already have a Dixie Craggers for NC and not a fan.

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By Chris Massey
Oct 8, 2012
Selected Climbs in NC - Lambert/Shull

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By JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Oct 8, 2012
Gunking
Ross Mac wrote:
Any suggestions and please, no one suggest Dixie Craggers. Already have a Dixie Craggers for NC and not a fan.


Since the Dixie Craggers, doesn't cover NC, it is no wonder it isn't doing it for you.

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
As mentioned, the DC doesn't cover NC, so not sure what you're talking about. Right now, there is really only one comprehensive game in town. The Select Guide by Lambert/Shull. It is a pretty decent book and despite the fact that it is select and is not comprehensive, it will get you pretty far. There are older out of print versions of the Kelly Guide. There are specific books or PDF-short guides for Rumbling Bald boulders, Dixon School, Pilot, the High Country Cragger (Ship Rock, Little Wilson, the Dump...), Linville River Crags etc...There are a couple books in the works for the Piedmont and Rumbling Bald routes.

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By AdamB
From Charlotte, NC
Oct 8, 2012
Black Boulder Problem, sent after a generous skin donation
Any recommended bouldering guides while we're on the topic?

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
AdamB wrote:
Any recommended bouldering guides while we're on the topic?

Other than RB and Dixon School, I'm not aware of any specific bouldering guides. There is enough info online to get you to and around most all of the popular bouldering areas. There will almost assuredly be enough people at any popular area to point you in the right direction once you get there.

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By sanz
From Raleigh, NC
Oct 8, 2012
One of my first trad leads, on Ooga Chocka at Crowder's Mountain.
+1 for Selected Climbs. Not the greatest guide book ever, but it does the job. By the time you run through all the routes for any given area, you will have met enough locals to get the beta for all that's off the beaten path.

The RB bouldering guide is supposed to be quite good. Also, Adam Sokolow just released a brand-spanking-new bouldering guide for Moore's wall. mooreswallnc.com/

Here's some beta on Linville Gorge bouldering: upstatebouldering.blogspot.com...

Enjoy NC!

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
sanz wrote:
+1 for Selected Climbs. Not the greatest guide book ever, but it does the job. By the time you run through all the routes for any given area, you will have met enough locals to get the beta for all that's off the beaten path. The RB bouldering guide is supposed to be quite good. Also, Adam Sokolow just released a brand-spanking-new bouldering guide for Moore's wall. mooreswallnc.com/ Here's some beta on Linville Gorge bouldering: upstatebouldering.blogspot.com... Enjoy NC!


I have real mixed feelings about the bouldering guides to NC. I own the RB one and it is awesome. But it is obvious that the bouldering guide has drastically increased the traffic at this area. Other guides will likely do the same thing at other areas. At the CCC meeting this last weekend it was made very clear that RB bouldering is a real sticking point with the State Park. The area has become abused and it is causing real access problems for the rest of CRSP (Ghosttown, N.side of RB...). Are bouldering guides really all that necessary for other State Park areas like Moores or Stone Mtn? It's not like these boulders are hard to find. Unlike roped routes, route guides to boulders aren't all that crucial IMO, as it's not that hard to look at a line and see if it is good and just try it. Places like Linville are a little different in that they are off the beaten path.

That said...that Moore's guide looks pretty awesome. Not sure I'll spend $35 on it, but it looks nice.

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By sanz
From Raleigh, NC
Oct 8, 2012
One of my first trad leads, on Ooga Chocka at Crowder's Mountain.
csproul wrote:
I have real mixed feelings about the bouldering guides to NC. I own the RB one and it is awesome. But it is obvious that the bouldering guide has drastically increased the traffic at this area. Other guides will likely do the same thing at other areas. At the CCC meeting this last weekend it was made very clear that RB bouldering is a real sticking point with the State Park. The area has become abused and it is causing real access problems for the rest of CRSP (Ghosttown, N.side of RB...). Are bouldering guides really all that necessary for other State Park areas like Moores or Stone Mtn? It's not like these boulders are hard to find. Unlike roped routes, route guides to boulders aren't all that crucial IMO, as it's not that hard to look at a line and see if it is good and just try it. Places like Linville are a little different in that they are off the beaten path.


Good points. I know there was lots of back-and-forth about any additional guidebooks at Moore's. I am not a boulderer so hard for me to speak on it, but it seems like guides would be much less necessary than for roped climbing. But it seems like if people want to put out guides there's not much to do about it. Other than not promote them, I guess.

I'm interested to hear what CCC thinks about new guidebooks for NC. Also, is the impact from bouldering just because there are more boulderers than roped climbers? Or is there some kind of different impact that the park is worried about?

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Oct 8, 2012
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.
sanz wrote:
Good points. I know there was lots of back-and-forth about any additional guidebooks at Moore's. I am not a boulderer so hard for me to speak on it, but it seems like guides would be much less necessary than for roped climbing. But it seems like if people want to put out guides there's not much to do about it. Other than not promote them, I guess. I'm interested to hear what CCC thinks about new guidebooks for NC. Also, is the impact from bouldering just because there are more boulderers than roped climbers? Or is there some kind of different impact that the park is worried about?


The increase in traffic has caused a lot of trail erosion getting to the major areas. Also, they are impacting the vegetation a lot more with the crash pads. The other major issue is parking and lack of consideration for other people (bad park jobs and carpooling). The rope climbers have their share of impact, but the base of most cliffs don't have much veg to begin with and there isn't a web of social trails. The boulder's do out populate the rope climbers on most weekends by at least 2x. I believe because bouldering is an entry level sport (there are advanced boulders too) the education about LNT is less present. A major trail day is in the works. Hopefully the boulders show up in force like they do on the weekends to pitch in.

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
sanz wrote:
Good points. I know there was lots of back-and-forth about any additional guidebooks at Moore's. I am not a boulderer so hard for me to speak on it, but it seems like guides would be much less necessary than for roped climbing. But it seems like if people want to put out guides there's not much to do about it. Other than not promote them, I guess. I'm interested to hear what CCC thinks about new guidebooks for NC. Also, is the impact from bouldering just because there are more boulderers than roped climbers? Or is there some kind of different impact that the park is worried about?


Bouldering in general is more popular and has attracted more people. Their impact has been more visible because of the trails (and accompanying erosion problems on the trails) around the boulders, the pads trampling down the bases, trash, parking problems at RB etc...Like it or not, the Park perceives bouldering as a real problem because of RB and IMO they are not far off on their assessment. The CCC rep for the area is doing a good job trying to show the Park that we are capable of being good stewards of the area but I think that it is a big hurdle. The CCC emphasized that our ability to convince CRSP that we can manage climber impact at the RB boulders will have a big affect on future access to other CRSP areas.

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By AdamB
From Charlotte, NC
Oct 8, 2012
Black Boulder Problem, sent after a generous skin donation
csproul wrote:
I have real mixed feelings about the bouldering guides to NC. I own the RB one and it is awesome. But it is obvious that the bouldering guide has drastically increased the traffic at this area. Other guides will likely do the same thing at other areas. At the CCC meeting this last weekend it was made very clear that RB bouldering is a real sticking point with the State Park. The area has become abused and it is causing real access problems for the rest of CRSP (Ghosttown, N.side of RB...). Are bouldering guides really all that necessary for other State Park areas like Moores or Stone Mtn? It's not like these boulders are hard to find. Unlike roped routes, route guides to boulders aren't all that crucial IMO, as it's not that hard to look at a line and see if it is good and just try it. Places like Linville are a little different in that they are off the beaten path. That said...that Moore's guide looks pretty awesome. Not sure I'll spend $35 on it, but it looks nice.



I hear what you're saying as far as impacts to increased traffic go, we've seen that a ton here in California, and if you're not interested in bouldering primarily, then yea, you may not see the need for bouldering guides. I, however, AM primarily interested in bouldering, and appreciate not having to wander around looking for the blocks when I get to a new area. It's not the fault of the bouldering guide the impact to an area increasees, it's the responsibility of the clmibers to respect the environment and not contribute to access issues, same goes for sport/trad areas.

Thanks for the info as far as guides go. I'm relocating to the area from Sacramento in the next few weeks and I'm trying to get more of a feel for the quality areas outside of what I can find on youtube/vimeo. It all looks really good though. Anyone have any other useful beta on the Charlotte area? Places to live, or NOT to live? How's Inner Peaks? Looks like it's the only game in town as far as a gym goes.

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By AField
Oct 8, 2012
I've bouldered at the Bald every weekend I was free enough, so I'm sure I've had some impact at the most of the major bouldering areas, and I'm well aware of the access situation and surrounding issues, and am fully willing to work with the park on that situation. I was, however, appalled at the way the ranger treated a visiting group from CO last year who had no idea about parking at RB, or any of the surrounding issues at hand. Worrying about impact is hard when you're sitting on a gold mine, but there has to be a better way then to call the primary user group a "problem."

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By AdamB
From Charlotte, NC
Oct 8, 2012
Black Boulder Problem, sent after a generous skin donation
AField wrote:
I've bouldered at the Bald every weekend I was free enough, so I'm sure I've had some impact at the most of the major bouldering areas, and I'm well aware of the access situation and surrounding issues, and am fully willing to work with the park on that situation. I was, however, appalled at the way the ranger treated a visiting group from CO last year who had no idea about parking at RB, or any of the surrounding issues at hand. Worrying about impact is hard when you're sitting on a gold mine, but there has to be a better way then to call the primary user group a "problem."


what IS the parking situation at RB?

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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Oct 8, 2012
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.
AField wrote:
I've bouldered at the Bald every weekend I was free enough, so I'm sure I've had some impact at the most of the major bouldering areas, and I'm well aware of the access situation and surrounding issues, and am fully willing to work with the park on that situation. I was, however, appalled at the way the ranger treated a visiting group from CO last year who had no idea about parking at RB, or any of the surrounding issues at hand. Worrying about impact is hard when you're sitting on a gold mine, but there has to be a better way then to call the primary user group a "problem."


I think one of the best ways to alleviate access issues like the ones at RB is to make it idiot-proof. I don't mean that boulders are idiots, but it means making it as easy as possible to conform to rules that help maintain access. I would really like to see parking "spaces" of some sort. One major issue there is people parking several spaces away from another car first thing in the morning because someone has their door open, which makes for an uneven size when the lot starts to fill up. This forces people to have to leave or face a ticket for parking illegally. I also rarely see anyone down at the community center carpooling. Lots of single occupant vehicles parking also limits the number of people able to visit. Opening up the larger lower lot should fix this issue in the future, but there is no time frame for when that lot will be developed. The social trails are an entirely different beast that requires policing from within the bouldering community or enforcement by "the man" (tickets). The access fund trail day did show a good precedent that could be set to alleviate some social trails by good trail days (creating boundaries).

Charlotte is a pretty good city for climbing. Linville, Moores, and RB are all less than 2 hours drive. Crowder's is in your backyard for quick sessions. Inner Peaks is a nice gym, but kind of small for a city the size of Charlotte. There is also the Whitewater Center, but I have never been.

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
AdamB wrote:
what IS the parking situation at RB?

On busy winter weekends, the lot is just not big enough to accommodate the demand. When the lot gets full, people have been parking where they shouldn't. On the road, in front of the gate, in adjacent neighborhoods, in the grass etc...it is a sore spot with the park service. Tom's note above is true, part of the problem is that people do not park with any efficiency. People need to carpool more and take advantage of the shuttle service that has run from town.

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By AField
Oct 8, 2012
Tom- I didn't mean to say you were referring to boulderers that way, it seems as if the park has antagonistic feelings towards users of the park, particularly the bouldering crowd. I agree that some sort of more stringent managment is in order, and that all sorts of abuses have occured, but the sort of stonewalling that seems to be taking place on the part of the park(the lower lot, other CRSP areas) is reductive and facile.
AdamB- To give you an idea, one Saturday last year, I rolled the 2.5 hours to the Bald to be turned away at the gate because the lot was full. I had no problem with this because I was well aware what the situation is/was. However, there was 5 or 6 person group at the gate too, who had come from CO to western NC to climb and visit. The ranger refused to have a conversation with them about the situation and sent them back down the hill to carpool up. These people were confused and a little bit put out, and the ranger didn't seem interested in helping. All of this is of course a product of the interaction between CRSP and the climbing community. The problem is that the park seems to take a "my way or the highway" stance, which I guess isn't a problem if you're local because you're used to it, but when other people show up, it gets messy.

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By T.C.
From Whittier, NC
Oct 8, 2012
Does anyone else find it strange that the park service is obsessed with the parking situation? It's not like there are dozens of parking based accidents that are causing the park problems. Why not charge $5 to park, and use the money to fix the problem? Anyone been to Tsali? You pay a fee to use the park, all the money goes back to maintain the park, that park, It's pretty nice there, and nobody complains about the parking.

Anyone been to Laurel Knob and parked in Panthertown? I guess the rangers there are not quite as uptight about parking, Jesus you can park in the middle of a campsite and walk off for 3 days if you want and nobody will complain or even say a word to you.

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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Oct 8, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
T.C. wrote:
Does anyone else find it strange that the park service is obsessed with the parking situation? It's not like there are dozens of parking based accidents that are causing the park problems. Why not charge $5 to park, and use the money to fix the problem? Anyone been to Tsali? You pay a fee to use the park, all the money goes back to maintain the park, that park, It's pretty nice there, and nobody complains about the parking. Anyone been to Laurel Knob and parked in Panthertown? I guess the rangers there are not quite as uptight about parking, Jesus you can park in the middle of a campsite and walk off for 3 days if you want and nobody will complain or even say a word to you.

Tsali and Laurel knob are not State Parks. The reality is that being in a State Park comes with a whole extra burden of red tape. The parking has been a problem in that cars have blocked access to the gate and lanes which are used by emergency personnel. Cars have parked on private roads and the landowners have complained. I'd think that lots of people would be willing to pay to use the lot but I'm sure there's some strange State Park regulation about doing that too.

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By wes calkins
Oct 8, 2012
So, back to the OP. I have been thinking about writing a new guide for the linville gorge. It is long overdue for some route documentation.
I was wondering what the climbing community feels about a guide for that area. I have some ideas for how I think it should be done.
My question for the community is do you think that publising a guide will cause problems. If so then what do you think the solution is to the problem of people going into the ditch every year and then needing assistance?
Please be nice my feelings are fragile.

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By T.C.
From Whittier, NC
Oct 8, 2012
There is a fee to use crsp already. I believe it's $18 per visit? Same as Grandfather.

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By wes calkins
Oct 8, 2012
Actually the fee is 15 and it only applies to the actually CRP proper not all the other areas

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By T.C.
From Whittier, NC
Oct 8, 2012
No Shit. Make it apply to the whole place. Use the dough to fix the problem.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Oct 8, 2012
El Chorro
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Kelly guide. It has A LOT of routes in it - a lot more than the Select Guide. I love both of the books for different reasons. The Kelly guide is hard to come by these days.

As far as any new ones coming out, I've made it pretty well known that I am against ANY new guides to NC. It's not necessary - there is enough info out there for any reasonably competent person to find a life time of climbing. If you aren't a local and don't like wasting time finding routes and rap stations then don't come to NC - you don't belong. Plenty of areas in surrounding states that are documented all to hell.

Books will come out and since I don't live there anymore there isn't much I can do about it. But if I can't climb at Moore's Wall when I move back home, I will kill someone.

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By wes calkins
Oct 8, 2012
Ryan Williams wrote:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Kelly guide. It has A LOT of routes in it - a lot more than the Select Guide. I love both of the books for different reasons. The Kelly guide is hard to come by these days. As far as any new ones coming out, I've made it pretty well known that I am against ANY new guides to NC. It's not necessary - there is enough info out there for any reasonably competent person to find a life time of climbing. If you aren't a local and don't like wasting time finding routes and rap stations then don't come to NC - you don't belong. Plenty of areas in surrounding states that are documented all to hell. Books will come out and since I don't live there anymore there isn't much I can do about it. But if I can't climb at Moore's Wall when I move back home, I will kill someone.


I agree that their is a lot of information out there. enough that if you spend time in the area you can find most anything that you want to climb. But what about all the routes that have been done since then. How do we document all the new routes. I know of entire areas taht have been established in the last 10 years. I understand that some of these areas are not publicly talked about because the first acensionist don't want there spot blowing up. My feeling is that the gorge will never be overcrowded simply because of the commitment level that it takes to go and do a route on the NC wall,one of the best doocumented areas in the wilderness area. I just think that what is out there could be done better and with more crucial beta that is specific to the gorge like approach and retreat times not mileage, cause mileage doesn't matter in the gorge.

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By Ben Alexander
From Cary, NC
Oct 8, 2012
High Country Cragger by Mike Grimm (of Misty Mountain Threadworks)

Here... footsloggers.com/shop-online/b...

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