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Rapping w/o chains, links, or biners
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By Paul Trendler
From Bend, Oregon
Nov 19, 2012
 VOTCD. Photo  by <a href='http://Tylerroemer.com' target='_blank' rel='nofollow' >Tylerroemer.com</a>

Searched the forum for an answer to today's scenario, but no avail...

Rap station with two regular stainless Metolius hangers placed about eight inches apart. I threaded my rope and rappelled.

This guy introduced himself at the bottom and politely told me I was sketchy, which subsequently blew my mind.

I am sure that there is always a chance I could totally F*%k my rope once I pull it, but I never have felt like I am in serious danger.There are some wide angles when I begin the rappell, but unless they look sharp, or uneven I have always been okay with threading the bolts directly to rappell.

I would be happy to read some of your insightful opinions. But somehow I feel like I am asking for cyberbullies.

Cheers.


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By tsuji
From Boulder, CO
Nov 19, 2012
On Peak 11,300 in the Ruth

I would try and avoid doing this too frequently, hangers are quite a bit sharper than rings. That being said I wouldn't call you out for being sketchy if I had seen this.


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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Nov 19, 2012

So they weren't these guys?
www.metoliusclimbing.com/rap_hanger.html


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By Tim McCabe
Nov 19, 2012

DannyUncanny wrote:
So they weren't these guys? www.metoliusclimbing.com/rap_hanger.html


Rap Hangers are great. But he say's the hangers are regular stainless.

Paul Trendler wrote:
Rap station with two regular stainless Metolius hangers placed about eight inches apart. I threaded my rope and rappelled.


If they aren't fat Rap Hangers why would you do that?

Not trying to be a bully. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Paul Trendler wrote:
I am sure that there is always a chance I could totally F*%k my rope once I pull it,


Sounds like it would be hard on the rope either way.

Could you have walked off?


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By todd w
Nov 19, 2012

Ropes can get stuck very easily doing this.


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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Nov 19, 2012
Sure, I can belay

Paul Trendler wrote:
Rap station with two regular stainless Metolius hangers placed about eight inches apart.


Seems like an unusual set-up for a rappel station, unless they were the fat metolius rap hangers. Is there more to the story? Like these are really just TR anchors?


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By Steve86
Nov 19, 2012

A lost biner or two is a lot cheaper than a new rope. Sounds like rapping the route wasn't intended -- alternate rap route perhaps?


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 19, 2012

the real question is why would you thread the bolts directly? there is literally no precedent for this anywhere in climbing- why would you do it in the first place?

i watched two kids do this the other day- we tried to warn them off, but they didnt care. its ridiculously bad for your rope- and, to be honest, fairly dangerous depending on what the scenario is.

every bolted station in the universe that is meant to be rappelled off of has rings or links- just use them. if, for some reason it doesnt and you're bailing for whatever reason, use a friggin carabiner.


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By RockyMtnTed
Nov 19, 2012

John Wilder wrote:
the real question is why would you thread the bolts directly?


Is because they were metolious rap hangers not a good enough answer? And it is the hanger you are threading.... not the bolt. I would imagine you would have a hard time threading an actual bolt.

It is still a little unclear if they were rap hangers or regular hangers and if this guy even knows the difference.


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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Nov 19, 2012

Unless they were rap hangers, the relatively sharp edges are hard on your rope. Beyond that, it could be very hard to pull the rope through standard hangers.


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By Steven Groetken
From Tucson, AZ
Nov 19, 2012
On top of Hitchcock Pinnacle.

Take some quick links (rapides) on your harness. They're quick, easy and cheap (like my ex, beat the trolls to it!) and not a big deal if you have to leave em behind on a bail (again, like my ex.)


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By conljr
Nov 19, 2012

I have done this plenty of times, usually folks put bigger/beefier bolts up top though. Rapping of v-threads or snow bollards are sketchy. You gonna work with what you've got. Besides rapping generates very little force.


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By Dan Bachen
Nov 19, 2012

The wear on the fixed hardware seems the worst problem here. I usually just untie a sling and tread it through both bolts retie then rap off that. Cheaper than leaving a biner, easier than carrying quick links. Generally in the areas I climb if your rapping directly off regular bolt hangers, it means you missed the intended rap station...


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By Paul Trendler
From Bend, Oregon
Nov 19, 2012
 VOTCD. Photo  by <a href='http://Tylerroemer.com' target='_blank' rel='nofollow' >Tylerroemer.com</a>

Thanks for all of your insights on this folks. To clear things up the hangers were not the larger metolius rap hangers, they were their standard stainless hangers.

No sheath damage, stuck rope, flat spots, or dead climber... yet.


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By TomCaldwell
From Clemson, S.C.
Nov 19, 2012
Me on One Pitch Wonder at Whitesides.  Photo credits to Kyle Jones and his lucky anti-rain jacket.

What route was this?


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By Dan Felix
Nov 19, 2012

One of the lesser visited crags I have climbed at has regular hangers at rap stations. I've made sure to have quick links with me when climbing there, I just leave the links on the hangers. If you tie a sling through the hangers, I would be sure to tie a master point in it.


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By Kenan
Nov 19, 2012
Shelf Rd

Dan Bachen wrote:
The wear on the fixed hardware seems the worst problem here. I usually just untie a sling and tread it through both bolts retie then rap off that. Cheaper than leaving a biner, easier than carrying quick links. Generally in the areas I climb if your rapping directly off regular bolt hangers, it means you missed the intended rap station...


So you're running the rope directly through the sling?? With no quicklinks/rings/biners?


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By pooler
From Albany, NY
Nov 19, 2012

Yeah rope through sling = no good. Unless of coures you intend to leave your rope behind


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By Brian in SLC
Nov 19, 2012
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

Paul Trendler wrote:
Thanks for all of your insights on this folks. To clear things up the hangers were not the larger metolius rap hangers, they were their standard stainless hangers. No sheath damage, stuck rope, flat spots, or dead climber... yet.


No no no. We don't do that.

Can be hard on your rope. Can wear out the hangers.

Take some sling/cord and a rapide. Leave that.

No one rappels with the rope threaded through a standard hanger.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Nov 19, 2012
Stabby

I've seen where douchebags steal quicklinks off of anchors disturbingly often. When used in tandem, 5/16" is plenty strong; keep a couple with you. Remember to rap only, not lower, if you only put one on each hanger.


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By Gunkiemike
Nov 19, 2012

RockyMtnTed wrote:
I would imagine you would have a hard time threading an actual bolt. It is still a little unclear if they were rap hangers or regular hangers and if this guy even knows the difference.


Sounds like YOU'RE unclear on the various types of bolts out there. Go clip some glue-ins.

I have seen folks threading their rope directly through a glue-in, in anticipation of lowering off. But then they found the courage/stregth to continue upwards. So they threaded the rope (yea, a SECOND time) through the next bolt. This was in the Black Corridor at Red Rocks FYI.

And it was a static rope.


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By doligo
Nov 19, 2012
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

pooler wrote:
Yeah rope through sling = no good. Unless of coures you intend to leave your rope behind


You obviously have not rapped off v-threads before. I'm glad people believe in it though - I get to booty a lot of shiny new biners off alpine routes.


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By RockyMtnTed
Nov 19, 2012

Gunkiemike wrote:
Sounds like YOU'RE unclear on the various types of bolts out there. Go clip some glue-ins. I have seen folks threading their rope directly through a glue-in, in anticipation of lowering off. But then they found the courage/stregth to continue upwards. So they threaded the rope (yea, a SECOND time) through the next bolt. This was in the Black Corridor at Red Rocks FYI. And it was a static rope.


I have clipped hundreds of glue ins, why would you assume you know what I have done? Makes you look like a moron..

We are not talking about glue ins here. The guy clearly has said it was a bolt with a HANGER, so not a glue in. What the guy was threading was the hanger, the bolt goes into the rock. Got it yet?


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By redlude97
Nov 19, 2012

Kenan wrote:
So you're running the rope directly through the sling?? With no quicklinks/rings/biners?

What's the problem with that if you are planning on leaving the sling behind anyways?


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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 19, 2012

RockyMtnTed wrote:
I have clipped hundreds of glue ins, why would you assume you know what I have done? Makes you look like a moron.. We are not talking about glue ins here. The guy clearly has said it was a bolt with a HANGER, so not a glue in. What the guy was threading was the hanger, the bolt goes into the rock. Got it yet?


oh, FFS, we know what he was talking about. good lord, bolt/hanger, same damn thing for intents and purposes of this conversation.

he also said, quite clearly, he's not talking about Metolius rap hangers. I also know what those are (and think they should be scrapped and NEVER used on the rock).


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By RockyMtnTed
Nov 19, 2012

John Wilder wrote:
e also said, quite clearly, he's not talking about Metolius rap hangers.


Yes he did.... later on the thread. When you initially made your post it was not clear.


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