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Quiet hrs in the High Peaks?!
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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Jan 17, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

www.dec.ny.gov/regs/13942.html

Section 190(f)(3)(viii): quiet hours in the high peaks from 10pm to 7am.

Above it is the text of the snowshoe rule (which is bullshit, and IS enforced, unlike the quiet hours regulation)

Just an interesting snippet: didn't know about these quiet hours!


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By "H"
From Manitou Springs
Jan 17, 2013
Axes glistening in the sun

Geez. I'm surprised you can even walk into the place with all those regs.


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By Bill Sacks
From Sacramento, CA
Jan 17, 2013
Chapel Pond

Where is the height requirement?


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Jan 17, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

"H" wrote:
Geez. I'm surprised you can even walk into the place with all those regs.


You can't in some circumstances.


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
Jan 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

If you camp further in than Marcy dam it will be quiet! Haha.. Just kidding I really don't know where you were.

I've had good luck in the past telling the DEC that I know the condition that trails I'm walking on are and snowshoes won't be needed. Usually if you tell them where you're headed the rangers will know whether or not you need shoes. That doesn't work if A, you're a dick like most people they come across or B, it's snowed a foot yesterday. Most of the time if you're chill they will be too. If you get on your soapbox you'll come down off it with a ticket.

The problem is people have postholed ski trails and skiers have flipped out. Now we're stuck with snowshoe Nazis!! I think they need to enforce crampons and time limits more snowshoes and quiet hours. I don't how many times I've seen hikers with no pons or been asked "Are we close to the summit?" when I'm like 30 minutes from the car!


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Jan 18, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Homeless Junkie from NEice?

Yeah this particular officer looked young, and we were polite and tried to reason with him to no avail. He let us "go into the pass just to look," after we promised not to do the trap dike. But we did it anyway, ha ha


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
Jan 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Yes it is. Nice! Did the Haha... give it away?

I know DEC are crazy! You been molested into showing a bear can in summer yet? I used to solo backpack during the holidays so if I got into trouble I would be fine. Problem is that seems to be when the rangers think every hiker is smoking crack.


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By The Stoned Master
From Millerstown, PA
Jan 18, 2013
Day Lily.

I see this sort of rule coming into play more and more the more popular climbing, skiing, outdoor sports all together grow. Soon we will have referees on el cap (similar to the gendarme) and "headlight"out time at red river gorge. Free soloing will soon be outlawed (especially if someone in the publics eye dies) and you`ll have to place gear no more than x feet apart. If you're caught running it out you'll get a ticket.

This is the way of the human: no control so you gain control, not enough control so we seek more. We are hungry for rules/laws and borders/labels. We are TERRIFIED of taking rules away (congrats to washington and colorado though for moving forward and taking chances)


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By handon broward
From Rochester, NY / Aspen, CO
Jan 18, 2013
Elk Range, CO

A couple of years ago up by Colden and Avalanche Pass we had a ranger come through and force us to walk half an hour with her to borrow a bear keg for one night. After which we then had to walk a half hour back in the wrong direction the very next morning in order to return it before our 6 mile trek out. Watch out for the younger rangers too, always the most overzealous. Got a $325 dollar ticket in Colorado for a fire that was not mine from some shithead 20 year old who though he was THE law.


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By The Stoned Master
From Millerstown, PA
Jan 18, 2013
Day Lily.

You gotta watch those young "studs" (referring to females also). After all of those years being picked on in school they are now able to release their revenge on everyone and like a young scorpion or snake the young are usually the deadliest (in the human case annoying).


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Jan 18, 2013
Stoked...

wow... crazy snowshoe law. Well if anyone here is interested in doing some ski descents up there I'm eagerly looking for a partner and have always wanted to throw some turns. I don't ice climb but mountaineer and have crampons, mnt. axe, skins and snowshoes.


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
Jan 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

I still feel the DEC is decent as long as you're polite and represent yourself like you have common sense. You should hear some of the stories I have about people hiking the 46ers. No headlamps no crampons no idea where they are on top of no food or water. I came across a guy who drank out of the Ausable river because he only carried 16oz bottle off water he bought from the store before he hiked Gothics. Rules are there because people lack intelligence and responsibility to take care of themselves and the land they are enjoying.

Handon I only seen two bears in all the weeks I've been walking around the high peaks. One in Panther Gorge when I decided to hike up Haystack from the south side.. stupid!!!! And the Colden outpost which is close to where that ranger stopped you. I hear bears are seen there regularly. What were you planning on doing with your food? Bears have been stealing food hung in trees for a minute now.


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By handon broward
From Rochester, NY / Aspen, CO
Jan 18, 2013
Elk Range, CO

The only time I have ever actually had a bear go after food is when it was in a cannister up in the Colden area...tossed it around the stream bed after we buried it in the rocks. Normally we tie it up but with a pulley/branch system so that the bag is way out of reach. For the most part my friends and I rely on still being young and being willing to be better and riskier tree climbers than the bears. Outside of the Colden/ Avalanche Pass area? Toss it in the bushes or hang it just above head height in a tree and hope its there in the morning. We are normally more concerned about the rangers than the bears per se. And its always such a pain in the ass to have to carry in the cannister. It fits what, like two people's food maybe? Sooo if you have three or more people for more than a day or so you have to carry two? Not happening. The Dacks are pretty much the only place where the keg is "mandatory" and it is quite annoying.


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By Greg Pouliot
Jan 18, 2013

You have to use snowshoes if there is 8 inches or more of snow. Sounds reasonable to me. Besides, hiking in more than a couple of inches sucks anyway. And how many times have you been out in the woods, trying to get away from the noises of the city, and had to deal with some drunk asshat screaming his head off in the middle of the night? I've been there, and it's not fun. So while quiet hours seem a bit ridiculous, I can understand the need. Nobody is saying you need to be silent. That said, some rangers are jerks, but it's something we all have to deal with.


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jan 18, 2013
Bucky

Kirby1013 wrote:
The problem is people have postholed ski trails and skiers have flipped out. Now we're stuck with snowshoe Nazis!!


This is the problem. Instead of bitching when you come across a "stupid" rule, perhaps you should ask yourself why the stupid rule is there in the first place. Now, I will agree that the ranger enforcement up in the Daks can be a little onerous at times and the rangers should perhaps use better judgement on when to enforce the rules; however, there is a reason for the snowshoe rule and it can be summed up by: "People are inconsiderate dumb@sses."

Is it completely inconsiderate for ice climbers and hikers to posthole their way down a ski trail? Especially if said idiots are walking right down the middle of the damn trail instead of walking off to the side? Yeah, those people need a kick in the dick. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of inconsiderate morons, hence the rule. And what about the noise violation? I don't know, but maybe its there because a bunch of morons were regularly deciding to bring their boomboxes up into the woods a rave away the night...who knows. But my guess is that most seemingly stupid rules are there because otherwise the place would be a disaster. Does this screw up the ruleless wilderness experience that many of us are looking for? Yup. But you can blame your fellow stupid man and not the ranger.


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By "H"
From Manitou Springs
Jan 18, 2013
Axes glistening in the sun

Haven't been up there since the early 90's, but the only place I've run into drunk, loud, idiots is at campgrounds. How many people are humping into the backcountry and are that loud that they have to have a noise ordinance?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it still make noise?


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By Greg Pouliot
Jan 18, 2013

"H" wrote:
Haven't been up there since the early 90's, but the only place I've run into drunk, loud, idiots is at campgrounds. How many people are humping into the backcountry and are that loud that they have to have a noise ordinance? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it still make noise?


Certainly wasn't the high peaks, but I was up at Pharoah Lake a few years ago and there was a super obnoxious group of guys there. Screaming obscenities at myself and my friends from the middle of the lake. I thought they were going to kill us in our sleep.


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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Jan 18, 2013
Gear

I went up colden via trap dike in Feb and came across a ranger writing a ticket for someone having a tent in an old designated campsite...apparently the designated site was moved and that area can no longer be used. Thing was no one was around to write the ticket to so they left it attached to the tent.

My question is who would they write that ticket out to. And for those of you who have received tickets in the Daks do you guys actually provide your license or ID? If I do carry my wallet and ID its usually buried in my pack since I know I wouldnt be using it. I wouldnt dig to pull it out so I can get written up. What does that ticket go against..dont pay a speeding ticket they suspend your license, dont pay a snowshoe ticket what would they do?


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
Jan 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Handon you have to be the only hiker that hates bear kegs that much. You say carrying two cans for three people is not happening? You got to be joking. Look at it this way.. the can strapped to your pack gives a little more room in the backpack for other things. I've even used a daypack with a can for an overnighter. Bear canisters make great big wall toliets too!!

And Yosemiite and Olympic N parks reqiure bear canisters too.


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By Kirby1013
From Baltimore Maryland
Jan 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Rocking out.. I've heard lots of crazy stories like hikers almost being arrested for failing to have ID and making up names. I also know guys who have got away with it too.

You are suppose have ID on your person at all times in the United States. But I'll say it again... if you're cool the DEC will be too. If you act a fool the rangers will turn your hike into a spending spree for NY state coffer. Just like parking tickets in Lake Placid the Rangers are making money for the state budget too. Its not the only reason they're out there but...


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By The Lingering Fart
Jan 18, 2013

Kirby1013 wrote:
You are suppose have ID on your person at all times in the United States.


Is this true? Can anyone cite a NY state law?

I've had the same dialogue while in the high peaks, snowshoeless, while walking on a hardpacked trail--"well, even if we are approached by an overzealous ranger, how will he or she know who we are?"


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By TWK
Jan 18, 2013

I always backpack with dogs in national forests and federally designated wilderness areas--that keeps the bears away and we sleep next to the food and a handgun. Never came close to needing the handgun--never even unholstered it. Not an option in national parks, however.
California recently outlawed the use of dogs for bear hunting, and I bet it won't be long before bears lose their fear of dogs.
Bear canisters are looking better . . .


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By Gunkiemike
Jan 18, 2013

Not too long ago my wife and I skied into Avalanche Pass via Marcy Dam. There was a ton of soft snow and it was the best ski conditions I've ever seen on that trail. On our way out we passed a lone hiker headed into the pass from the Dam postholing right in our ski tracks. No exaggeration, his boot tracks were a good 16" deep. I bitched at him a bit and he pretended not to hear me. 5 minutes later we passed a Ranger working hard to catch up to the Ahole. On that day I was glad the snowshoe rule existed.


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jan 18, 2013
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

Gregory Pouliot wrote:
You have to use snowshoes if there is 8 inches or more of snow. Sounds reasonable to me.


It's unfortunate you don't value--or understand--your civil liberties.


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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Jan 18, 2013
Gear

What we consider and take as common sense isnt really all that common to people who dont get out that often. Any skills, including when and how to use snowshoes, are taken for granted by us, but I consider this Woods sense or Outdoor sense, rather than common sense. Looking both ways before you cross the street is common for everyone. Knowing how to keep your food from bears or when to use snowshoes isn't a common thing for every...only in the outdoors.


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jan 18, 2013
Bucky

Marc H wrote:
It's unfortunate you don't value--or understand--your civil liberties.


What was the punchline behind this statement? I may be misunderstanding you, but it would seem that you are stating that "god damn it, my civil liberties deem that I have the right to posthole down the center of a ski trail". If I am misunderstanding your statement, I apologize. Otherwise, I would argue that just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you should. Moreover, its people who choose to exercise their civil liberties at the expense of their fellow citizens that can be blamed for annoying rules. Folks like that are self-righteous, selfish douche nozzles IMHO.


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