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Quickdraws and rope still missing
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By EDJ
From Eldorado Springs, Colorado
Sep 26, 2012
With no real expectation to have my stuff(3 draws and a rope)back, I will again post my cell #(303-656-1550) where one could text me a drop off location. Like the post office in eldo.Spgs. in a bag or wherever. I will respect this action and erase it from my phone without trying to make contact.

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By NickinCO
From colorado
Sep 26, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.
That is really lame. Sorry man.

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By EDJ
From Eldorado Springs, Colorado
Sep 26, 2012
It all boils down to this: Leaving a line fixed is bad ethics because what if everybody did that? I thank the climbing community for being so passionate and involved and for helping me see that I was practicing bad ethics.

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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Sep 26, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
Depending on the circumstances, I do think people should give a little slack for those putting up new routes if it is out of the way, hopefully bland colored, and not up too long, People love to get on established routes, but complain when they observe the process often needed for putting them up. New routers are often working alone and leaving a fixed line is sometimes the only practical way to get the job done. An occasional out of the way rope up for a week should not get people bent out of shape. Leaving frayed and bleached crap draped all over forever is obviously a no-no.

If you think a rope has been up too long, then let the party know in a civilized way so they can explain what their intentions are and have the chance to take care of it themselves. Unless the rope owner is being a real dick, taking it and not returning it is just plain stealing in my book.

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By Josh Janes
Sep 26, 2012
This is shit all the way around.

As someone who has left fixed ropes on projects, I empathize with EDJ. But when he copped attitude and acted all entitled, that was just bound to piss people off - especially when, living in Eldo, he knows it's illegal and knows how aggro the locals are about this sort of thing. Frankly, I'd be very annoyed too if my gear was removed - but I never sleep well knowing it's out there and every time I return and it's still there, I'm thankful, so I guess I don't really expect that others will see it my way. I'd like to think they'd contact me first and give me a chance to take care of it myself, or at the very least they wouldn't just toss it in a dumpster.

As someone who's seen fixed ropes hanging around, I've also felt annoyed by how unsightly they are. It's orders of magnitude worse in more pristine areas than Eldo, but even so Genesis is probably the most conspicuous area in the park - arguably even more so than the Bastille since you look out at it as opposed to having to tilt your head back and look up to see it. Also, Genesis is one of the more popular routes in Eldo - I didn't see exactly where the rope was, but if climbers had to push it out of the way while climbing or couldn't use the anchors easily for some reason, that would be particularly bad.

But damn, if I were going to remove a fixed line I would try to use a public forum to request that the owner do it first (and give him time to do so) or, at the very least, announce my intentions beforehand so that the owner would 1) still have time to do it himself or 2) know where to retrieve their gear - either way no hard feelings would be intended.

EDJ, now you've lost your rope and gear and you still haven't learned the lesson: Using the word "Please" doesn't make you post sound like anything other than an entitled demand. You put the burden squarely on the shoulders of the person who removed your gear - a person who clearly doesn't give a shit about you AND has the law on their side. He's not going to call you or drop your rope off at the ranger station. Even if you think this guy is an asshole (which he probably is since he gave you no warning and removed your rope less than 24 hours from the start of all this), if I were you I'd just apologize/offer beer/offer to meet him wherever/whenever is convenient - that might get you your stuff back. If you just can't stomach doing this, I get that too - but say goodbye to your stuff forever and don't post your demands - that just makes you look like the asshole. BTW - I'm intrigued about the route and hope to hear more about it.

Anyway, this seems to cut to the core of the problem with human nature: not giving a fuck about anyone else. The good news is we probably have more common ground than opposition on this: I'm sure everyone will be psyched to have a new route in Eldo and that same everyone will be psyched to not have fixed lines hanging on the walls. Too bad it couldn't have happened with more good will all around.

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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Sep 26, 2012
...
"New routers are often working alone and leaving a fixed line is sometimes the only practical way to get the job done. An occasional out of the way rope up for a week should not get people bent out of shape"...


I totally agree. (So long as it is not at a popular spot that others get on, etc...)

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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Sep 26, 2012
Bucky
M Sprague wrote:
Depending on the circumstances, I do think people should give a little slack for those putting up new routes if it is out of the way, hopefully bland colored, and not up too long, People love to get on established routes, but complain when they observe the process often needed for putting them up. New routers are often working alone and leaving a fixed line is sometimes the only practical way to get the job done. An occasional out of the way rope up for a week should not get people bent out of shape. Leaving frayed and bleached crap draped all over forever is obviously a no-no. If you think a rope has been up too long, then let the party know in a civilized way so they can explain what their intentions are and have the chance to take care of it themselves. Unless the rope owner is being a real dick, taking it and not returning it is just plain stealing in my book.


Mark my friend, you should get the award for delivering the most consistently even-handed and reasonable posts on MP. The world is always grey, but nobody every seems to see it that way, huh?

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By EDJ
From Eldorado Springs, Colorado
Sep 26, 2012
Please see my most recent post in the main conversation. Ethics are rules....

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By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Sep 26, 2012
J. Albers wrote:
Mark my friend, you should get the award for delivering the most consistently even-handed and reasonable posts on MP. The world is always grey, but nobody every seems to see it that way, huh?


Climbers like to get worked up about silly stuff.

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By Tony T.
From Denver, CO
Sep 26, 2012
Getting up the Great Dihedral on Hallet Peak, RMNP...


Seriously? So many eyerolls to go around. Sorry your gear was stolen. I hope you retrieve it. I am being sincere.

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By Larry S
Sep 26, 2012
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
Just a thought here if you plan to repeat this in the future - Maybe put a note/tag in a Ziploc bag attached to the bottom of you rope with your contact info, the reason the rope is left up (access for establishing a new route), the date it was put up, and the date you plan to remove it. That should, in the future, keep the commotion to a minimum.

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By Cor
Sep 26, 2012
black nasty
so what ever happened to mr. shralpin, who started all this?

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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Sep 26, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Return Genesis?

First things first...



Kill Captain Kirk.

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By NickinCO
From colorado
Sep 26, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.
Cor wrote:
so what ever happened to mr. shralpin, who started all this?


I think he's out climbing on his new rope..

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By Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Sep 26, 2012
Me and Spearhead
Josh Janes wrote:
Anyway, this seems to cut to the core of the problem with human nature: not giving a fuck about anyone else.


Well put J, it would be nice if people in general could get out of their own way and not be inconsiderate ass clowns.

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By Eldo Love
From Dolores, CO
Sep 27, 2012
The front yard
NickinCO wrote:
I think he's out climbing on his new rope..


haha no shit!

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