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question about a cam and how to sling it?
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By John Layko Torkleson
Jul 30, 2010

All right. So I came across a cam for super cheap (10 bones) and it doesn't have a sling/webbing on it. Should I use a. the purple bd mini-sling in the picture and if so should I just girth hitch it? b. go retro and make a 1 inch webbing sling and water nut it up? c. use nothing at all and just clip a bine straight to the cam?

Also, I don't know too much about this particular cam. I assume it's advanced base camp but if anyone could enlighten me that would be greatly appreciated. It says "ABC" and "4" on the biner.

thanks home slices.

John


biner
biner




biner and bd
biner and bd


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By Brian Snider
From NorCal
Jul 30, 2010
Me

Where the he'll you gonna use that in Midland? I'd be careful with an unknown piece. Those lobes look pretty smooth, is that wear or just the style? I would either not use it or put a piece of webing with a water knot on it and save he sling. $10 sling vs 1.79 per foot webing.


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By John Layko Torkleson
Jul 30, 2010

dude I think it's the style. I'm only in Midland to get my foot right. I smashed my heel bouldering outside of Price UT, but you're right, not much climbing to do in the mitten. The piece looks solid. I've weighted it and I think it checks out.

John


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By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Jul 30, 2010

that thing looks fine. I'd just use 9/16" webbing with a water knot, 1" is pretty big.


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By Evan1984
Jul 31, 2010

There are a lot of threads discussing this very issue.

One of the bigger concerns that people presented was the fact that the plastic sheath on the u-stem will fail well before the unit, leaving nylon on cable. If you look at factory slings they actually have a double layer of webbing over the plastic sheath area.

I have some that a just reslung with cordellette, but I think that I'll send out for a professional job next go.

Evan


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By Brian Snider
From NorCal
Jul 31, 2010
Me

Sorry born and raised in Americas high five so I had to poke fun when I saw midland. I'm thinking it will hold as long as you don't fall. I did a quick search on abc gear but didn't find much. Pro re sling is prob your best bet.


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By timt
From Wheat Ridge, CO
Jul 31, 2010
on lead, Mean Green Cody,WY

"abc" stands for "advanced base camp." gear company that i am not sure is still around, but made decent gear (not great). didn't know they ever made cams, but i have used some of their nuts years ago.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 31, 2010
Bocan

John Layko Torkleson wrote:
dude I think it's the style. I'm only in Midland to get my foot right. I smashed my heel bouldering outside of Price UT, but you're right, not much climbing to do in the mitten. The piece looks solid. I've weighted it and I think it checks out. John


That's the way cams were made previously...my early 90's climbing mags are full of the smooth lobe metoluis and ABC cams. That being said that's an OLD cam.


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By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Jul 31, 2010
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

Looks fine to me. It doesn't really matter how old it is. I've got a couple of similar style. Anyways all small cams have smooth lobes.

I would just use 1" tubular webbing and a water knot. If you use less than 1", tie a double/triple fishermans.


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By Peter Stokes
From Them Thar Hills
Jul 31, 2010
Wall Street, Moab, UT

I have a bunch of cams that had old and/or suspect webbing when I got them- old style friends and some TCUs (which are similar to the unit in your photo)... I re-equipped them with slings like you're thinking of, but I used V hitches instead of girth hitches because V hitches are supposed to be stronger (haven't done the drop testing myself, but I've heard this repeatedly). That said, I'm thinking of getting them all re-slung professionally, partly due to what Evan1984 mentioned, and partly because I don't seem to fumble around with stock style cam slings quite as much as I have been with my current setup. Regardless of what setup you go for, you should probably avoid clipping carabiners directly to your cams....


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By John Layko Torkleson
Jul 31, 2010

thanks everyone for the input. I appreciate it. Come to Michigan for some moderate recreation.


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By Rob Warden, Space Lizard
From Springdale Ut
Jan 8, 2013
blah

clip it with a draw. The spreader bar at the back of the unit keeps it from kinking like cable loops. Or get a new sling bartacked on at Wired bliss Loveland CO for $5 or Runout customs MOAB Ut


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By Drew Nevius
From Oklahoma
Feb 16, 2013
BETA: For me, crux move was sticking the move to the flake above these crimps

I was going through an few old Climbing Magazine from 1989 and found a couple ABC advertisements that show your Spider Cam. I thought you might appreciate seeing them. (EDIT: I was able to rotate after uploading)

ABC cam advertisement
ABC cam advertisement


ABC Spider cam advertisement
ABC Spider cam advertisement


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Feb 16, 2013
Bocan

John Layko Torkleson wrote:
The piece looks solid. I've weighted it and I think it checks out.


Totally...I find that weighting a piece is the best representation of a factor II fall.

Sweet Tebus...

Not that I don't trust older cams but that cams lobes are smooth because it's one of the SLCDs from the early - mid 90s. If you are really interested I'll dig up some of the really old magazines with advertisements for that cam.

There's a reason why you paid $10 for it. It's old mank and I personally wouldn't trust my life to a 20+ year old piece with unknown history.

Your life is worth more than $10 I would hope.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Feb 16, 2013
Bocan

haha...dang I just realized this is a post from 2010 to which I already replied 3 years ago. Rob he may not see your timely advice.

Ain't got time for that!!


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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Feb 16, 2013

To keep the grave digging alive, I'll add to it.

Those nuts look pretty sweet and light. Any one know if they had any issues?


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By Jeff Kent
From Sedona, Az
Feb 16, 2013

Scott McMahon wrote:
Totally...I find that weighting a piece is the best representation of a factor II fall. Sweet Tebus... Not that I don't trust older cams but that cams lobes are smooth because it's one of the SLCDs from the early - mid 90s. If you are really interested I'll dig up some of the really old magazines with advertisements for that cam. There's a reason why you paid $10 for it. It's old mank and I personally wouldn't trust my life to a 20+ year old piece with unknown history. Your life is worth more than $10 I would hope.


There is nothing wrong with smooth cam lobes. They were not failing back then when placed properly. It's no more dangerous now.


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By Adam Stackhouse
Administrator
Feb 16, 2013
Courtright Reservoir, September 2013

I've got one of those. Bought it used some years ago.

Spider #4
Spider #4


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Feb 17, 2013
Bocan

Jeff Kent wrote:
There is nothing wrong with smooth cam lobes. They were not failing back then when placed properly. It's no more dangerous now.


No where in my post did I say smooth lobe cams are dangerous. I said the lobes are smooth because it is a 20+ year old cam, and I'd probably be reluctant to trust such an old cam with an unknown history.

I mean...he bought it for $10. It's not a toothbrush.


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By Jeff Kent
From Sedona, Az
Feb 17, 2013

Why would you be reluctant to trust it? You can pretty much look at a cam and judge whether it's safe. Do you have to know it's history to trust it?


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Feb 17, 2013
Bocan

Jeff Kent wrote:
Why would you be reluctant to trust it? You can pretty much look at a cam and judge whether it's safe. Do you have to know it's history to trust it?


I agree partially that sure you can tell if a cam is totally destroyed or decent looking, absolutely. In this particular case though who knows what this cam has seen in it's life. It might be strong enough to hold a truck, but like I said I would take a little more caution with my life.

Don't get me wrong I've bought used cams so I'm contradicting myself, but 20 years is a looong time. Who knows where this little guy has been. But hell...I'm sure I've climbed on sketchy stuff and not known it. :oP


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By Jeff Kent
From Sedona, Az
Feb 17, 2013

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I started out with a used set of those that I tied 7mm cord to with water knots. Fell on them often and never had one fail. I guess I think this gear that we use is much stronger than we give it credit for.


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By bearbreeder
Feb 17, 2013

20 year old TCUs are damn strong ... stronger IMO than the new UL ones they have these days


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By rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Feb 18, 2013
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogstick Ridge link-up.  Photo by Myriam Bouchard

I had a few cams like that BITD (not ABC, maybe early Metolius or Wired Bliss). We just clipped 'em with quickdraws; they worked fine. I'd think a quickdraw would be better than any knotted sling. Girth-hitching a sling to wire is a bad idea, just threading a doubled sling through is much better. See, for example, www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/11_Tests_Girth-hitche>>> and dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/improvisation-larks-foot-or-basket>>> .

I also don't think there's anything the matter with smooth lobes. In fact, I've never really understood the notches in most cam lobes; it seems to me that they would just facilitate sheer-stress failure. Totem cams have a knurled surface that might actually contribute to friction, but the notched cams seem pointless if not counter-productive to me. On the other hand, I ain't no materials engineer (or any kind of engineer for that matter) so maybe there really is a good reason for the notches.

I don't think the age is an issue if all the components are in good shape.


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By wivanoff
Feb 18, 2013
High Exposure

Brian Snider wrote:
.... Those lobes look pretty smooth, is that wear or just the style? I would either not use it or put a piece of webing with a water knot on it and save he sling. $10 sling vs 1.79 per foot webing.


When "Friends" were the only SLCD around (for $17.50 ea BTW!), I remember reading that the notches on the cams were cosmetic only - they didn't really affect the holding power. That may have been from an "Off Belay" magazine around 1978. However, that is just something I remember reading, BITD.

Some of the Metolius TCU's I still use came new with smooth cams and no webbing. You just clipped a draw to the "U" which was held open by the spreader. As RGold mentions, I sometimes basket hitch a sling through the "U" but never girth hitch it.


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By fng
Mar 5, 2013

Aside from the cam, I have used the girth hitch. I would not cinch it down so it is clipped to both loops so it hangs shorton my harness. When placing it I can leave it or cinch it down to extend it out depending on the route.


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