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pyramid plan in how to climb 5.12.
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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Aug 26, 2011
You stay away from mah pig!

Michael McKinnon wrote:
QFT. What I say all the time to my partners. You will never climb 5.12 no matter how many 5.11ds you climb...b/c there is no 5.12 move on 11ds. You will just become a really good 11 climber.


Uhhh... there are no 5.12 moves on a lot of 5.12s.

Actually, given the way that route ratings progressed in the US, climbing a lot of 11d's in particular is a great way to climb 5.12.


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By slim
Administrator
Aug 26, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

agree with camhead. it would be interesting to see how many 12 routes don't have any specific 12 climbing on them. i'm betting probably half or so and very dependent on area.


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By JLP
From The Internet
Aug 26, 2011

Agree about trad generally = 1 letter. If not, then either the climbs you are comparing are not graded right, or maybe you're weak placing gear at the grade.

All the books have suggestions on % of where you spend your time. Pyramids are a performance day activity. It's not something anyone does all day, every day they go out. The base of the pyramid is supposed to be your hardest onsight, or within a letter of that. Adding routes to the pyramid is all about falling and failure. I can only handle a few hours of it per week.

What is a "5.12 move"? I can't put meaning to that. Most speak bouldering grades when discussing anything over 5.10. Agree that 12- of a typical 80 foot route is going to have a bunch of V2 or a little V3 - grades associated with the hardest you'll find on 5.11. A 12+ will most likely have some V4, though...


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By slim
Administrator
Aug 26, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

i would equate a single 12 move to a short v4 or so, pretty much agree with what you are saying. although there are 12+ routes that don't have a move harder than 5.10 (v1 or so?).

it's interesting that you point out the pyramid as a performance exercise. this is a good point as there are 2 kinds of pyramids. this one, where you are trying to add performance data, versus using a pyramid on a training day.


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By JLP
From The Internet
Aug 26, 2011

slim wrote:
versus using a pyramid on a training day.

I always warm up and cool down. I also vary interval lengths and intensity. It looks like a pyramid, but I don't think it's what is referred to in SCC, Horst or PRC as a pyramid.


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By slim
Administrator
Aug 26, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

the SCC book has some examples of training day pyramids. the top grade would probably be approximately equal to the current grade you are shooting for on your "real" pyramid.

the one thing that always kills my cool-down workout is the skin on my hands. by the time i am getting ready to cool down, my skin is pretty raw. i haven't found a way around this problem yet.


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By Mike Anderson
From Dayton, OH
Aug 26, 2011

slim wrote:
in general, i think climbing anything less than 2 number grades below your current redpoint level is pretty much a waste of time.


Hmmm....let's agree to disagree. I do lots of climbing more than 2 grades below my max redpoint, and I don't consider it to be a waste of time. The vast majority of my ARC training is in this range, and I think it's very valuable, especially if you're interested in pumpy routes, on-sighting, and/or improving technique.


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By Joseph Stover
From Batesville, AR
Aug 26, 2011

If a pyramid plan is what motivates you, it will help. Motivation is key.

I've only redpointed a single 12a, but have hangdog TR'd a handful. And the only reason I redpointed that one was because it "called my name". It was just that one project that got into my head, that I knew I could do and became obsessed with. And it took more work than anything I've ever climbed... WAY MORE work. Still to this day I have never redpointed an 11d, although I've onsighted a single 11c, and redpointed several 5.11's.

How long you wait to go for a 5.12 redpoint depends on how much work you want it to be. If you wait until you consistently onsight mid 5.11, then you should be able to get a 12a pretty quick if you choose it carefully. If you do a pyramid of redpoints, where each one takes weeks of work, a 12 is going to take a LOT of work.

If you can redpoint most 11's you try in a days work and confidently onsight 5.10's, you're probably ready for a 5.12a project.


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By slim
Administrator
Aug 29, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

Mike Anderson wrote:
Hmmm....let's agree to disagree. I do lots of climbing more than 2 grades below my max redpoint, and I don't consider it to be a waste of time. The vast majority of my ARC training is in this range, and I think it's very valuable, especially if you're interested in pumpy routes, on-sighting, and/or improving technique.


alright, i gotta point out that 2 grades under your max redpoint is probably 12a, 12b? something heinous like that. that would be a pretty sick level to ARC at. however, for somebody who's max redpoint is in the 12 range, being able to ARC at the 5.10 level is pretty accurate. don't forget us little folks way back down on the exponential curve man!

i would kind of consider ARC'ing totally separately. you do bring up a good point, ARC'ing at more than 2 grades under redpoint max wouldn't be a waste if that was the ARC level they were currently at.


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By Eric Carlos
From Boulder, CO
Feb 4, 2012
Always wear a helmet.  I had it with me but chose not to wear it.  A fist sized rock fell about 35-40 ft and hit me right on top of the head

I am quite surprised that people reply on here that climbing lots of 11's, especially 11d's will not help you climb 12's and that 11's don't have moves as hard as 12's do. Obvouisly people that make comments like that have not climbed enough outside to really understand the dynamic of route grading. Take for instance Military Wall at the Red River Gorge, there is the "12 wall" containing 3 different 12b's and an 11b. Now I have sent all four climbs, and I would argue that the hardest move on the whole wall is the start of the 11b. Also I have been on upper 11's that had stout v3 cruxes, and upper 12's that had the hardest move as v2, yet the easiest move at v1 or 2 also and it was 90 ft of constant v2 moves.


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