Protection for Sandstone

Getting ready to go down to the Moab area, mostly to jam some cracks, and on most beta it lists what cams to use. I have always used pro on harder rock like granite and quartzite, and where cams are nice, still prefer stoppers and hexes. Was just curious if the sandstone doesn't lend to bomber placement on the passive protection I prefer and thats why the betas are all about cams.

The problem is not the sandstone. When you can find constrictions, nuts are great. The problem is the parallel sided cracks. There are routes in the desert that you can do on passive pro, but those are in the minority. A hex will work fine in a parallel crack, and many Indian Creek routes were climbed that way, but nudge one of those things, and you'll get to enjoy it rattling down to the base of the climb. Bring cams.

i wrote this blog a long time ago. It is still relevant zionadventures.com/ZBlog/ge…

Uhhh, Cams?

Kevin DB wrote:Uhhh, Cams?

Uhhh, Yeah

If you plan on climbing towers you will find you need a variety of protection but the Indian Creek splitters generally require multiple cams in the same range.

You will have less stress with more cams. The rock is softer than you are used to and you may notice tracks where cams have pulled out of the rock. IMHO it was probably the wrong sized cam that usually pulls.

There are a few bolts but not many. Try Ancient Arts in Fisher Towers for a bolted route.

You can climb most desert routes with only cams but VERY few with only passive pro (unless you want to go retro like Earl Wiggins, and the other crack climbing pioneers of decades past).
It's totally smart to sew it up. Placing one cam every body length is a good goal in sandstone.
And leave all of your micro-nuts at home!

And keep in mind that those old timers used bongs, drilled angles, bolted, and generally used all kinds of shenanigans to get up those things.

SexPanther aka Kiedis wrote:Beginner climber forum bump

Asshole climber bump

William Kramer wrote: Asshole climber bump

He's an asshole because you're asking a beginner question?

you know that feeling, when you see a topic back on top of the forum, and you were sure it was dead, but now you have to read what more anyone could possible have added. It is always a relief when it has turned into banter. thanks kiedis

I also would have enjoyed reading the OP updating to say he just sent supercrack on hexes and doesn't understand the fuss about these springy thingies

NickinCO wrote: He's an asshole because you're asking a beginner question?

How is asking about an area that I have never been to a beginner question? And maybe it is a beginner question, better to give advice or be a snob? All I can say, is that if any of you asked something simple about my end of the world, I would pass on what I have learned for the benefit of others, so they could be prepared and have an enjoyable time climbing in my home area. For those of you who replied with genuine advice, thank you, I appreciate it greatly. For the others, I'm sorry for asking such a noob question in your elite forum.

William Kramer, Haters gonna hate, for what its worth, don't worry too much about the nay-sayers. I personally have never climbed at the creek, but I've climbed hundreds of other sandstone pitches, and if you have the means, bring some cams. That's my 2 cents at least. Good luck!

Bring cams, and lots of them - or find more partners. Place them often, deep, within their optimal range, and in thoroughly dry rock.

Humble yourself before you go, or not - those splitters will do it for you!

Have fun!

William Kramer wrote: And maybe it is a beginner question, better to give advice or be a snob? ... For the others, I'm sorry for asking such a noob question in your elite forum.

Jeez man. going a bit lighter on the 'tude would probably serve you well.

Locker wrote:"Yer GONNA die!!!") ;-)

SexPanther aka Kiedis wrote:This forum is elite, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the layer cake.

"Like"

William Kramer, yes please bring the hexes, just don't forget a wall hammer. We need more pods on the Generic Crack!

How about tri cams? They dig into the sandstone too much?

So before anyone gets any silly ideas, let me spell this out. think about what a tricam will do in a parallel, vertical crack when subjected to an upward pull. It will just fall out. This is why you want active cams...They do not disengage unless you pull the trigger. I tried to use tricams when I first started climbing at the creek and before my rack grew, but that was far from ideal or even practical. Why don't you just listen to what people are telling you, and just get a rack of cams before you kill yourself.

Honestly I don't like tri cams, was just curious about it. And I have nothing against cams, have plenty yet never enough. All I meant with this forum is to ask about an area and type of rock I have absolutely no experience protecting. Why I asked is because I have looked many routes up on here or in books and they say this cam and that cam and three of this cam, and as I lug 30 lbs of springy thingies up the wall, I find that I could of protected 75% of it with nuts and hexes. Do the cams work as well? Definitely, but on single pitchers, why carry all the extra weight when don't need to? And cams are very nice in that you pull back, stick it in, and let go-easy peasy, but always feels kinda neat when you can set a nut that is bomber in almost every direction, or when you get the slight cam action out of a hex making it as solid as the rock, for me it feels as more of an accomplishment just because it is harder to set those types of pro.

So I am sorry for all the remarks, and banter, and whatever else, not my intention, was just curious. Was curious if it was just the popular thing to use cams and not others, and not having seen the cracks first hand, I don't know the best pro to use, thus why I asked for the advice of people with hands on experience.

With that, now can I ask, is protecting the other sandstone down there with cams any different? Wingate is the strongest correct? And the other types are softer? Is there anything special to look for when placing pro, or just the same as anywhere else? I would think to try to set deeper than norm due to chance of breaking lip of crack or whatever you are placing it in off?

Again, just curious. Like to go into things with as much pre planning as I can.

You're catching so much flak because you inferred the correct answer before you even asked the question. As you have pretty much stated yourself a quick glance at the guidebook (or mountainproject descriptions), rounded out with glancing at pictures of a few routes, answers this question beyond any shadow of a doubt.