"Might I direct you to something that might interest you more - Daisy Chains!!!" if you look a little closer ..i have a doubled rope in my hand.. we are rapping past this cluster on dark shadows.
"Both are silly questions, not that there's really anything wrong with that, and the latter would probably have garnered just as many "dickhead responses."" i don't get it.. somewhere between my level and 5.15 is a point where you cant onsight anymore .. what is that point for average climber? i will even take a range..
"If you can climb 11c sport, you can climb 11c trad." i can climb 11's .. i cant climb 11's while fumbling through gear and finding placements.
omg ..here we go ..Mr. Evan cant read .. or quote .. but tries to jump on the "im cool too guys, look at me!" bandwagon since i put a hint of modesty in my post you feel the need to sight in on it ?? Evan .. "15 years" and "fumbling Through gear" take another hit off the pipe buddy
So what should we think?
You have climbed for 15 years, mostly trad, and claim that you can't do trad what you can do sport. How is it that in 15 years you still don't have the modest level of proficiency to lead the same trad and sport? Having more than a letter or two between your trad and sport abilities is beginner shit.
"what is the hardest grade that the average climber can onsight"? so .. much .. clearer .. thank you so much!
"So what should we think?" you should realize that most of my trad lines are east coast cracks .. most of my sport routs are RRG sport. just a touch different. Differences only detectable by ppl with 20 years in. I dont work at or spend much time climbing sport. The only place i intentionally travel to climb sport is Lionshead, Ontario
so i'm a beginner with 15years under me.. fine with me .. what was your answer to my original post? i didnt catch it
You can answer your own question since the whole "average" climber thing is going to dictate "your" answer. It is really going to come down to how you define a "climber" and what makes them "average", which could be anything from done it once to someone who is focused and striving to get better and has been for some time.
My understanding of the 5.12c quote, and it might have been from a different time, was that Randy Levitt said he wanted to be a 5.12c surfer (he was starting at the time) because that was the grade at which he thought climbing got interesting.
Will S. wrote:
I doubt any of you climbed with or were friends with dean potter, sonny trotter, caldwell, ondra, sharma, honnold, jardine.. also .. the original question was at what level do you start project-ing? if we could have just answered with ratings, instead of dickhead responses, this would have been a lot easier for all of us.
I would guess more people than you think have had a chance to climb with at least one of these "name" climbers. I also know of a few people who would not be considered "name" climbers that on-sight that grade (12c).
let me summarize.. im not fixing my name.. so stop whining.
i love bantering with you assholes... you all act like you are so bad ass .. in my 15 years i have climbed with a lot of people.. that talked a lot of shit .. no one has been able to deliver. so i know 90% of the spew you dickheads talk is complete bullshit so your online friends will think you are cool.
let me summarize.. im not fixing my name.. so stop whining. i love bantering with you assholes... you all act like you are so bad ass .. in my 15 years i have climbed with a lot of people.. that talked a lot of shit .. no one has been able to deliver. so i know 90% of the spew you dickheads talk is complete bullshit so your online friends will think you are cool.
I was going to offer some advice on how to pose your original question so that folks would be inclined to answer, but you seem to have that pretty well figured out yourself. Carry on!
I think anyone can respectably project a trad line at any grade as long as it is pushes them to become a better climber either mentally or physically.
To be serious, I think the question should be answered like this: If you want to find out how hard you can climb traditionally protected routes, ground up, you should project something that you think you can send after getting the moves wired.
There's a good chance if you stuck to onsighting/two-three trying what you can, and continued improving (especially with good training), there's not a bad chance that in a year or so, you'd be onsighting what you'd originally planned on projecting.
SO, I see it as this: Unless you've exhausted your physical potential, climbing more of what you can do in only a few tries will bring you to a higher onsight level. If you're physically at your potential (forever) limit, then you could sit down and project a line for a year and get the hardest send of your life. It's up to you what you do, f*** what other people say. (Especially on the internet, ESPECIALLY on MP)
My first "project" was a 5.9 (r4 on Mt Lemmon) in '92. I freaked the first time I tried to lead it and backed off. One of my more talented buddies climbed it, and set a TR. I attempted to climb it, thought about pro and basically did everything in my power other than chip and drill to get myself up the route. It took a few days and a few more aborted attempts followed by rehearsals on TR, but it was a great learning experience. I felt very respectable when I finally did the route clean, and no one whose opinion mattered to me ever said they didn't respect me for "projecting" my way to the top.
The more I think about the OPs question, the more I am struck by how strange it is. Then again, maybe I am just out of touch and hopelessly uncool. The number is 5.9. Carry on!
I love how precise you need to be on forums... I have been climbing for 15 years .. mostly trad .. i have never seen anyone onsight 5.12.. i assume i need to clarify here.. 5.12 trad.
well,.... you do live in Michigan. If you climb in areas with a greater density of good climbers, you will start seeing more people onsighting in the 12 range on gear. sometimes if i feel like i am in the minority where i live because i don't onsight in the mid 12 range on gear.
and like the real Will S said, as long as you aren't making a cluster for other folks, feel free to project at whatever grade you want. i actually recommend it - if you don't send, try it again until you do.