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Project-ing Trad lines
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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 15, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on
It's all about R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

The Midwest Will.S wants some, but at which grade will falling off get him some, he would like to know?


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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
"Might I direct you to something that might interest you more - Daisy Chains!!!"
if you look a little closer ..i have a doubled rope in my hand.. we are rapping past this cluster on dark shadows.

"Both are silly questions, not that there's really anything wrong with that, and the latter would probably have garnered just as many "dickhead responses.""
i don't get it.. somewhere between my level and 5.15 is a point where you cant onsight anymore .. what is that point for average climber? i will even take a range..

"If you can climb 11c sport, you can climb 11c trad."
i can climb 11's .. i cant climb 11's while fumbling through gear and finding placements.

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By Alex Bury
From Ojai, CA
Apr 15, 2013
'Mystical Weapons'
Turd Furgeson!

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By Wilson On The Drums
From Woodbury, MN
Apr 15, 2013
best in the hills
I think anyone can respectably project a trad line at any grade as long as it is pushes them to become a better climber either mentally or physically.

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By Goat
From Boulder
Apr 15, 2013
Unknown climb in The Needles
Will S. wrote:
" i can climb 11's .. i cant climb 11's while fumbling through gear and finding placements.

I think that he assumed that after "twelve years" of "mostly trad", you would be all done "fumbling with gear". Oh shit, Guideline #1... Sorry Will.

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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
omg ..here we go ..Mr. Evan cant read .. or quote .. but tries to jump on the "im cool too guys, look at me!" bandwagon

since i put a hint of modesty in my post you feel the need to sight in on it ??

Evan .. "15 years" and "fumbling Through gear"

take another hit off the pipe buddy

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By Shelton Hatfield
From Austin, Texas
Apr 15, 2013
Photo by Damien
Will S. wrote:
somewhere between my level and 5.15 is a point where you cant onsight anymore .. what is that point for average climber? i will even take a range..


so for clarity's sake, is your question now "what is the hardest grade that the average climber can onsight"?

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By nicelegs
From Denver
Apr 15, 2013
Will S. wrote:
omg ..here we go ..Mr. Evan cant read .. or quote .. but tries to jump on the "im cool too guys, look at me!" bandwagon since i put a hint of modesty in my post you feel the need to sight in on it ?? Evan .. "15 years" and "fumbling Through gear" take another hit off the pipe buddy


So what should we think?

You have climbed for 15 years, mostly trad, and claim that you can't do trad what you can do sport. How is it that in 15 years you still don't have the modest level of proficiency to lead the same trad and sport? Having more than a letter or two between your trad and sport abilities is beginner shit.

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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
"what is the hardest grade that the average climber can onsight"? so .. much .. clearer .. thank you so much!

"So what should we think?" you should realize that most of my trad lines are east coast cracks .. most of my sport routs are RRG sport. just a touch different. Differences only detectable by ppl with 20 years in.
I dont work at or spend much time climbing sport. The only place i intentionally travel to climb sport is Lionshead, Ontario

so i'm a beginner with 15years under me.. fine with me ..
what was your answer to my original post? i didnt catch it

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By bearbreeder
Apr 15, 2013
Well protected "trad" climbing on 11/12s with good gear and clean falls arent that different from working sport routes

Once you blow the onsight, you work out the moves and gear sequence ... With enough attempts youll get it ... Take the fall

I dont even call that trad personally

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By LeeAB
Administrator
From ABQ, NM
Apr 15, 2013
Once we landed we headed to Font to find a place t...
You can answer your own question since the whole "average" climber thing is going to dictate "your" answer. It is really going to come down to how you define a "climber" and what makes them "average", which could be anything from done it once to someone who is focused and striving to get better and has been for some time.

My understanding of the 5.12c quote, and it might have been from a different time, was that Randy Levitt said he wanted to be a 5.12c surfer (he was starting at the time) because that was the grade at which he thought climbing got interesting.

Will S. wrote:
I doubt any of you climbed with or were friends with dean potter, sonny trotter, caldwell, ondra, sharma, honnold, jardine.. also .. the original question was at what level do you start project-ing? if we could have just answered with ratings, instead of dickhead responses, this would have been a lot easier for all of us.


I would guess more people than you think have had a chance to climb with at least one of these "name" climbers. I also know of a few people who would not be considered "name" climbers that on-sight that grade (12c).

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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
let me summarize..
im not fixing my name.. so stop whining.

i love bantering with you assholes... you all act like you are so bad ass .. in my 15 years i have climbed with a lot of people.. that talked a lot of shit .. no one has been able to deliver. so i know 90% of the spew you dickheads talk is complete bullshit so your online friends will think you are cool.

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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Apr 15, 2013
At the BRC
Will S. wrote:
let me summarize.. im not fixing my name.. so stop whining. i love bantering with you assholes... you all act like you are so bad ass .. in my 15 years i have climbed with a lot of people.. that talked a lot of shit .. no one has been able to deliver. so i know 90% of the spew you dickheads talk is complete bullshit so your online friends will think you are cool.


***yawn***

I was going to offer some advice on how to pose your original question so that folks would be inclined to answer, but you seem to have that pretty well figured out yourself. Carry on!

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By Jason Todd
From Ranchester, WY
Apr 15, 2013
Moss
Will S. wrote:
"what is the hardest grade that the average climber can onsight"? so .. much .. clearer .. thank you so much!


5.7/8

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By M.Morley
Administrator
From Sacramento, CA
Apr 15, 2013
8-21-09
Will S vs. Will S.

This has the portent of the best thread in months.

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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
change your name !!! i demand you !

(haha.. thats good)

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By JCM
From Seattle, WA
Apr 15, 2013
M.Morley wrote:
Will S vs. Will S. This has the portent of the best thread in months.


Says one Will S to the other:

"There's only room for one Will S in this town. I challenge you to a duel."

Then girly-man climber slapfight ensues.

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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Apr 15, 2013
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH
Wilson On The Drums wrote:
I think anyone can respectably project a trad line at any grade as long as it is pushes them to become a better climber either mentally or physically.


To be serious, I think the question should be answered like this: If you want to find out how hard you can climb traditionally protected routes, ground up, you should project something that you think you can send after getting the moves wired.

HOWEVER...

There's a good chance if you stuck to onsighting/two-three trying what you can, and continued improving (especially with good training), there's not a bad chance that in a year or so, you'd be onsighting what you'd originally planned on projecting.

SO, I see it as this: Unless you've exhausted your physical potential, climbing more of what you can do in only a few tries will bring you to a higher onsight level. If you're physically at your potential (forever) limit, then you could sit down and project a line for a year and get the hardest send of your life. It's up to you what you do, f*** what other people say. (Especially on the internet, ESPECIALLY on MP)

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By Midwest Will
From ann arbor, MI
Apr 15, 2013
nimbus at lions head
Will S vs Will S. vs Will S..

pillow fight turned Ménage à trois.. and my stem is still rigid. ( i knew owning forged friends would eventually pay off)

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By Steve Bond
Apr 15, 2013
Photo.
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Will S.?

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By JCM
From Seattle, WA
Apr 15, 2013
Will S. wrote:
Will S vs Will S. vs Will S.. pillow fight turned Ménage à trois..



Don't you mean "Ménage à trolls"

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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Apr 16, 2013
tanuki
My first "project" was a 5.9 (r4 on Mt Lemmon) in '92. I freaked the first time I tried to lead it and backed off. One of my more talented buddies climbed it, and set a TR. I attempted to climb it, thought about pro and basically did everything in my power other than chip and drill to get myself up the route. It took a few days and a few more aborted attempts followed by rehearsals on TR, but it was a great learning experience. I felt very respectable when I finally did the route clean, and no one whose opinion mattered to me ever said they didn't respect me for "projecting" my way to the top.

The more I think about the OPs question, the more I am struck by how strange it is. Then again, maybe I am just out of touch and hopelessly uncool. The number is 5.9. Carry on!

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By grampa potate
Apr 16, 2013
I tend to project the first pitch of any multipitch line...and i don't let anyone pass. As far as grades go, I tend stay around 5.1b

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By Dr. Rocktopolus
From Chattanooga, TN
Apr 16, 2013
Whipping on the redpoint crux of " The Theate...
Hey man, I project tons of trad lines. Project whatever grade you need, try hard, commit, and enjoy.

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By slim
Administrator
Apr 16, 2013
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
Will S. wrote:
I love how precise you need to be on forums... I have been climbing for 15 years .. mostly trad .. i have never seen anyone onsight 5.12.. i assume i need to clarify here.. 5.12 trad.


well,.... you do live in Michigan. If you climb in areas with a greater density of good climbers, you will start seeing more people onsighting in the 12 range on gear. sometimes if i feel like i am in the minority where i live because i don't onsight in the mid 12 range on gear.

and like the real Will S said, as long as you aren't making a cluster for other folks, feel free to project at whatever grade you want. i actually recommend it - if you don't send, try it again until you do.

FLAG


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