Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Prep me for the Red
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 2.  <<First   <Prev   1  2
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
Oct 24, 2011
Killis Howard wrote:
the theory being: if you can climb 100 5.11s in an hour or two in the gym, onsighting 12- isn't going to be tough after recovery. If you're aiming for 13-, try to do 100 12-s in a session, mix in some bouldering, if you're rested you should be in there. I know those numbers probably sound ridiculous to people that don't train or have access to a gym, but start with sets of ten on routes a number grade below your limit and you'll see progress. By the time you're stacking sets of 20 together, you should be getting used to making real progress.


Killis Howard wrote:
Ryan, 55 feet back east, bout ten less out here. Sets of 100 are very possible if you give it a try.


100routes * 55feet/route =5500feet in 1 to 2 hours

the Nose speed record is 3,000 feet in 2:36:45

At my best I can put together 10-to-15 5.12s in a 2 hour session with some fluff totaling 25-to-30 routes on 50foot walls. I have also put in 1 hour long bouts on the Treadwall and only covered 1000-1500 feet.
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points
Nov 1, 2011
Realize that no matter how strong you are at your local areas...you're gonna get pumped blind and flail your first couple of days.

I've found that there is no climbing area that mimics the Red...for a good 13a...try Snooker, or the Force...pretty easy to read and not too hard.
Blake Cash
Joined May 27, 2007
195 points
Nov 1, 2011
Which way again?
I hear you, ghost. How I got there was to start with easier routes, and climb faster. Moving quickly and without overgripping is pure gold on radically overhanging terrain, and the only way to get that relaxed is by drilling laps til it becomes commonplace to be inverted. Puzzling out moves is not and should not be a part of running laps.

To get things rolling, step WAY back. Pick a juggy 5.8 or nine and try to climb it five times in ten minutes. Then 15 times. The idea here is to generate as much actual climbing fitness as possible by getting maximum mileage at speeds that should require you to be sweating hard as you would while booking it on a treadmill.

For perspective, I was on a really masochistic Mark Twight bent when I started all this, was working for a tree service and commuting by bike everywhere I could, and was fit to start out with. No one's climbing 300 5.11s without a platform to get there, so ratchet the difficulty down, crank some tunes (my favorites for training are fast+very rhythmic-early Meshuggah, Slipknot's Iowa album), and bring a towel to the gym for in between sets. Set of five, water. Set of ten, stretch. Now that you're warm, do sets of 20 to failure. If you're doing sets of more than 20 at a time you're probably needing to bump the grade up.

Doing the 300 took hours on end (most of the day, I recall, and over ten belayers) but I had already climbed the crack 500+times for training prior to this, so there was nothing stopping me but my endurance limits. Comparing the Nose record is pretty laughable compared to my little workout, but to understand the pace you want to be training at, it is instructive to watch the Hubers do what they do on video-they're jugging and jamming at AEROBIC levels, again, if you're not stomping the gas, you're not getting the benefit from the training. The Red will show you what your endurance limits are; if you're not tired when you hit the crux, you won't have to dig deep for more power to get through it.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Nov 1, 2011
Red River Gorge cabin
Red River Gorge cabin


10/27/11: Drive By Crag
light rain all day, highs in the mid 50s. Waking up late after getting in at 2a.m. One other party at the crag, maybe due to the rain.
Whip-Stocking (11a) onsight
Spirit Fingers (11c) onsight
Easy Rider (13a) fell on last move during onsight
Beer Belly (13a) fell at crux and lowered

10/28/11: Motherload
heavy rain turning to snow/sleet in the afternoon, highs in the mid 30s. Lots of running around to stay warm. Two other unpsyched parties at the crag who left when the rain turned to snow.
Injured Reserve (11a) onsight
Kick Me in the Jimmie (12a) flash
Skin Boat (13a) Fell at first and second bolt, climbed to top
40 oz. of Justice (13a) onsight
'The Infidel' at Funk Rock City
'The Infidel' at Funk Rock City

10/29/11 Funk Rock City
Bluebird day! Chilly in the morning but warmed up to mid 50s. Lots of people at the crag but nobody climbing on what we wanted to climb.
Prime Directive (11b) onsight
The Infidel (11d) onsight
Orange Juice (12c) onsight
Appalachian Spring (13a) second try send
'Orange Juice' at Funk Rock City
'Orange Juice' at Funk Rock City

10/30/11 Solar Collector & Gold Coast
Bluebird day turning a bit cloudy. Highs in the low 60s. Many, many people at the crag. Every route taken. 7-deep line on 'Golden Boy'
Ethics Police (11d) onsight
Golden Boy (13b) 4 tries falling at top, no send
Strong Girl on 'Golden Boy' at The Gold Coast
Strong Girl on 'Golden Boy' at The Gold Coast


10/31/11 Left Flank & Military
Gray day in the morning turning to bluebird, highs in the mid 50s. Out early to catch afternoon flight. One other party at the crag.
To Defy the Laws of Tradition (10a) onsight
Too Many Puppies (12a) onsight
Table of Colors (13a) onsight
Mercy the Huff (12b) onsight
Stunning the Hog (12d) second try send
The Reliquary (12b) fell at top
Gung Ho (12a) onsight
Tissue Tiger (12b) fell at top
All Things Considered (11d) fell twice, climbed to top
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points
Administrator
Nov 1, 2011
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
Nice work man! Just think what you could do with a few rest days! Monomaniac
From Morrison, CO
Joined Oct 26, 2006
16,864 points
Nov 1, 2011
Amazing you climbed all this stuff one month in the future! dorseyec
Joined May 31, 2009
16 points
Nov 2, 2011
Which way again?
Stalker.
Stalker.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Nov 2, 2011
Fear and Loathing.
Killis: I assume there are autobelays or something at the gym where you did this sort of training? Toby Butterfield
From Portland, OR
Joined Aug 30, 2010
196 points
 
Nov 2, 2011
Which way again?
Nope, and the gym rules favored ATC over gri-gri, as well.

Had a lot of great friends and helpful training partners back then. Maybe one day when I get back east I'll get to catch up with some of them.

Having a training partner means you don't have to count your own laps (extremely helpful if you're bleeding sweat and dizzy from hyperventilation and overpump), have a cheerleader/coach, and a good excuse to recover a bit while they interpolate their sets. Some of my training partners climbed 12 or 13 when I was still stumbling up 11s. Many of my best training partners started in the single digits but saw the results I was getting and got on board.

I have climbed one pitch in my life on an autobelay, and that was quite enough for me.
Cunning Linguist
Joined Feb 15, 2007
2,478 points
Nov 2, 2011
Great job B! Isn't 40 oz rad? I think that's one of my favorite routes at the red.
Let me know when you decide to come back.
Mike Anderson
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Nov 15, 2004
3,094 points
Nov 4, 2011
Mike Anderson wrote:
Isn't 40 oz rad? I think that's one of my favorite routes at the red.

Honestly I was too nervous to really enjoy it. After I got through the crux I was just repeating 'don't screw up, don't screw up . . . ' I got up into the less-steep section and spent 10 minutes shaking out on (unknowingly) the worst holds on the route prepping for what I thought was going to be the crux headwall.


Appalachian Spring
was my favorite send, behind my heartbreaking failure on Golden Boy
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points
Nov 4, 2011
Me
Killis really? Dam that's a lot of vertical.

Hey Mono, any chance you're Slade bound in the next few weeks? Im heading there next week to remove fixed draws and hord human feces.
Ryan Palo
From Bend, oregon
Joined Aug 18, 2006
636 points
Nov 4, 2011
Too late Ryan, I took the last perma draws down after I onsighted every route in the Madness Cave....

grayhghost, I am pretty damn impressed that you managed to climb 5 days in a row and send on every day, especially day five. Good job! How on earth did you manage to recover??? I've been staying at the Red for awhile now and it's been a struggle to find top fitness and send my selected projects, even with all the time I have to climb. I've never trained though. I think the next time I come here I'm going to do an all-out Rockprodigy-style periodized plan. I'm seriously convinced that the gym is the best way to prep for this place and I won't even bother climbing outside. Just out of curiosity, what were some of the main things you learned from your trip, like training a preparation wise? Would you do anything different next time?
Gung-ho Gumby
Joined Jun 27, 2011
5 points
Administrator
Nov 4, 2011
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.
Ryan Palo wrote:
Hey Mono, any chance you're Slade bound in the next few weeks?


No, I don't have any trips planned. Might check with Mike though.
Monomaniac
From Morrison, CO
Joined Oct 26, 2006
16,864 points
Nov 7, 2011
Gung-ho Gumby wrote:
... grayhghost, I am pretty damn impressed that you managed to climb 5 days in a row and send on every day, especially day five. Good job! How on earth did you manage to recover??? I've been staying at the Red for awhile now and it's been a struggle to find top fitness and send my selected projects, even with all the time I have to climb. I've never trained though. I think the next time I come here I'm going to do an all-out Rockprodigy-style periodized plan. I'm seriously convinced that the gym is the best way to prep for this place and I won't even bother climbing outside. Just out of curiosity, what were some of the main things you learned from your trip, like training a preparation wise? Would you do anything different next time?


Thanks for the good words. I have attached my training diary so you can get a general feel for how things came together. The plan was to train nearly every day, but life got in the way with work conferences etc. punching the holes you can see in the calendars.
If you want to climb 5 days in a row you need to train 5 days in row, mimicking the stresses as closely as you can.
The Dreadwall was a pretty good simulation of the Madness Cave and created a kind of fitness that 4x4s and route-repeating does not.
Fall Training is crucial to forgetting about the rope and trying really hard during an onsight.

This book really helped me get psyched on training, pushing and improving my climbing. If you really want to get serious about improving it offers a good path towards your goals.

training diary August
training diary August


training diary September
training diary September


training diary Octobeer
training diary Octobeer
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points
Nov 7, 2011
Many, many people at the crag. Every route taken. 7-deep line on 'Golden Boy


This is why I've bailed on the Red for a good long while. The New is where it's at!
Blake Cash
Joined May 27, 2007
195 points
 
Nov 7, 2011
grayhghost wrote:
Thanks for the good words. I have attached my training diary so you can get a general feel for how things came together. The plan was to train nearly every day, but life got in the way with work conferences etc. punching the holes you can see in the calendars. If you want to climb 5 days in a row you need to train 5 days in row, mimicking the stresses as closely as you can. The Dreadwall was a pretty good simulation of the Madness Cave and created a kind of fitness that 4x4s and route-repeating does not. Fall Training is crucial to forgetting about the rope and trying really hard during an onsight. This book really helped me get psyched on training, pushing and improving my climbing. If you really want to get serious about improving it offers a good path towards your goals.


Thanks for posting the calendars. Are the numbers your weight? Yeah, I figured you must have done a couple 5-in-a-row killer training blocks if your goal was to send 5 days in a row at the Red. Also, I have read and re-read McLeod's book and keep track of his training blog. His insight and wisdom inspires me for sure. I'd say his book and Self-Coached Climber are the two most important books I've read for improving my climbing. When I get around to designing and implementing my own training plan I will seek out your advice. Until then I'm working on exposing myself to more styles and mediums of climbing and letting my tendons get a bit stronger. Good luck on the next cycle!
Gung-ho Gumby
Joined Jun 27, 2011
5 points
Nov 8, 2011
Gung-ho Gumby wrote:
Are the numbers your weight?

Yes, weight is the final key to getting good results climbing. I went sober from October 1st until I met my goal. A big deal if you know how much I like to drink.

Gung-ho Gumby wrote:
When I get around to designing and implementing my own training plan I will seek out your advice. Until then I'm working on exposing myself to more styles and mediums of climbing and letting my tendons get a bit stronger.


You don't need a fancy periodized plan with S&M gear like hangboards and campus boards to see improvement in your climbing. The SCC blog has a great post on making gains by simply thinking about what you are doing when you go to the gym.

The really strange thing to me is that I haven't increased my time spent at the gym, I just now go there with a purpose. One number grade in a year later, I'm looking to go further . . .
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points
Oct 31, 2012
Would you be willing to break down some of the exercises for your days of HIT, PE, and campusing shown on the calendar images. Did you always do the same exercises on these days? Mike Wallraff
From Boulder
Joined Sep 30, 2008
78 points
Oct 31, 2012
You can see the details of the exercises in my first post/start of the thread.
Upon further training plan refinement, System Wall sets with 10-20 moves is way too much volume for a hypertrophy phase. Shooting for 2-3 moves is better. Now I do this using hard (for me) boulder problems in the 2-3 move range. If you wanted to, you could cycle through the System Wall, the Hangboard, and Bouldering during this phase to keep it fresh.

HIT strips are worthless for anyone in the 5.12 range because they are just too big/easy without adding ridiculous weight.

Campusing has endless variations, with the main idea being to fail in the 4-8 move range. I don't campus anymore, but am now focusing on 4-8 move dynamic boulder problems.

The classic Power Endurance exercise is the 4x4. You can also do Treadwall intervals (I did 1min. on, 1min. off, 2min. on, 2min. off, 3min. on, 3min. off, 4min. on, 4min. off, 5min. on, 5min. off, 4min. on, 4min. off, 3min. on, 3min. off, 2min. on, 2min. off, 1min. on, 1min. off) or Fartleks while staying on the wall the whole time. There is now an entire book on the subject so you shouldn't have a shortage of exercises.
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
391 points


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 2.  <<First   <Prev   1  2
Beyond the Guidebook:
The Definitive Climbing Resource
Inspiration & Motivation
to Fuel Your Run
Next Generation Mountain
Bike Trail Maps
Backcountry, Sidecountry
& Secret Stashes
Better Data. Better Tools.
Better Hikes!