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By Jack Sparrow
From denver, co
Jan 31, 2013

Hey Patrick unfortunatly my trip is planned for the end of feb to end of march. Thanks for checking. If your bussing it i would recommend taking a bus that stays on the toll roads. It will be much safer than the free roads. Thanks Kevin i appreciate it.


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By Step hen
From Fort Collins, CO
Feb 1, 2013
Boulder Canyon <br /> <br />photo by Curt



I'm not sure I buy Lonely Planet's analysis, Curtis. Read comments by ifeelfine and davanderman and then the author's response. Then tell me whether you still stand by the author's stats.


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By Step hen
From Fort Collins, CO
Feb 1, 2013
Boulder Canyon <br /> <br />photo by Curt

Enjoy your trip, Sparrow. Let's go climbing sometime, it's been too long.


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By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 1, 2013
Andrew Gram

Don't even think about planning a climbing trip to the USA. People walk into schools and gun down loads of little kids there. You can't even go to a movie theater in the USA without the risk being gunned down by a madman. That country is barbaric. You would be much safer going cragging in Japan or Sweden.

The statistics of Americans vs Mexicans being caught up in violence is very relevant. While sensational and awful, the cartel violence is generally localized to people interacting with the cartel. If you are scared, stay home, but the hysterical alarmism coming from a bunch of rock climbers - who should be exactly the sort people that can approach risk rationally as something that can be managed - is just bizarre.

We deal with rarely occurring nightmare scenarios all the time - death due to rope cutting on a fixed draw, death due to avalanche, death due to a rope cutting over an edge while jumaring, death due to rockfall, etc. Traveling in another country with problems is little different.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Feb 1, 2013
Stoked...

Andrew Gram wrote:
but the hysterical alarmism coming from a bunch of rock climbers...


Hum.. considering 20 people were kidnapped and dismembered from what is apparently across the street from the climbers place I don't think it's really alarmist behavior... If that shit happened at my regular bar and the folks weren't caught you can be damn sure I wouldn't be ANYWHERE near that bar, no matter what national statistics you can come up or rationalize.


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By Hank Caylor
Administrator
From Golden, CO
Feb 1, 2013
Yoda

Ben Brotelho wrote:
Pretty unrelated, but I read in Harpers magazine that the drug cartel stands to lose 1,400,000,000 from the legalization of marijuana in colorado and washington. Yes, 1 Billion 400 mill. Crazy!


For fucks sake, Coloradans don't smoke Mexican shit!!! I've been here for 23 years, locals have always grown freakblends that almost nobody on the planet can touch. Harpers Mag. makes no sense to me with that statement..


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By Devin Fin
From DURANGO
Feb 1, 2013
dream canyon fun!

Freakblends! + 1..


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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Feb 1, 2013
tanuki

There seems to be a lot of questions as to where this actually took place. Ed, will you please provide some information regarding where the people were kidnapped and where they were executed.

I am usually very wary of sensationalistic stories like this. Sit in Europe and read the news from America; from that perspective the USA seems a LOT more dangerous and crazy than it actually is. I believe that there is an element of that going regarding this incident and the real danger to climbers at Potrero. I am not saying that there are not VERY bad things happening in Mexico. However, at this point I still feel that climbers, staying at Posada or one of the other camping areas and minding there own business, are still relatively safe. Other people feel differently, and that is cool too.

Again, Ed, please provide some perspective on where all this happened exactly.


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By Hank Caylor
Administrator
From Golden, CO
Feb 1, 2013
Yoda

NC Rock Climber wrote:
Again, Ed, please provide some perspective on where all this happened exactly.


Magic Ed Wright MIGHT be smart enough to not want his name, business, whereabouts and opinions being tracked by some random narco using google.

Narcos~
"You mean this Magic Ed lives within a few hundred yards from our bar and has a property full of paying camping gringos???!!!!"

Personally, I'd keep my yapper shut on this one if I lived down there.


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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Feb 1, 2013
tanuki

Hank the Tank wrote:
Magic Ed Wright MIGHT be smart enough to not want his name, business, whereabouts and opinions being tracked by some random narco using google. Narcos~ "You mean this Magic Ed lives within a few hundred yards from our bar and has a property full of paying camping gringos???!!!!" Personally, I'd keep my yapper shut on this one if I lived down there.


Valid point.


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By Patrick Vernon
From Albuquerque, NM
Feb 1, 2013
mexico

Andrew Gram wrote:
Don't even think about planning a climbing trip to the USA. People walk into schools and gun down loads of little kids there. You can't even go to a movie theater in the USA without the risk being gunned down by a madman. That country is barbaric. You would be much safer going cragging in Japan or Sweden. The statistics of Americans vs Mexicans being caught up in violence is very relevant. While sensational and awful, the cartel violence is generally localized to people interacting with the cartel. If you are scared, stay home, but the hysterical alarmism coming from a bunch of rock climbers - who should be exactly the sort people that can approach risk rationally as something that can be managed - is just bizarre. We deal with rarely occurring nightmare scenarios all the time - death due to rope cutting on a fixed draw, death due to avalanche, death due to a rope cutting over an edge while jumaring, death due to rockfall, etc. Traveling in another country with problems is little different.


Hmm Andrew, I get your point but I respectfully disagree. I think as climbers we accept that some risk is objective and unmanageable (at least we should) despite our best efforts. I think that is the, ahem, crux of the issue here. Some people are not willing to accept that there might be an unmanageable risk (objective hazard) to traveling in drug country, that everything is fine.

People have to admit the story is kind of sensational, 18 people abducted executed and dismembered from the bar across the street of your favorite climbing area. If that isn't at least mildly sensational I don't know what is. Have we really become this numb to violence?

If that happened to me, sitting on my cloud, I would want people to know about it. I would be a little pissed if there were a bunch of gringos sitting across the street talking about how the US is just as violent as Mexico. Different situations, different contexts, than Sandy Hook and Aurora, but I would argue worse for the average citizen. Give the Mexicans their due, their situation is bad and many of the victims are innocent and have nothing to do with the cartels.

Climbers in Potrero are probably safe, but something about about a bunch of gringos with obvious money hanging out on a drug trafficking route in the middle of a turf war just doesn't sit right with me, I think Hank makes a good point. The one time I visited Potrero it was after spending a 6 month stint in central Mexico. I honestly didn't feel like I was in Mexico anymore being surrounded by mid-westerners, easy to get a false sense of security.

-Pat

Also NC if you watch the news reports it is obviously in Hidalgo and right near the Posadas.


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By Ed Wright
Feb 1, 2013
Magic Ed

The 12 piece, all-male cumbia band was abducted from a party they were playing at at La Carreta, a warehouse-like building behind Checo's, across the street from Homero's and about 200 yards from the entrance to La Posada.

The bodies were found almost 50 miles away towards Monclova in a well near the turn-off to Espinazo.

Another weird random event.


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Feb 3, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!

JLP wrote:
CO+WA population = 12M. That's a little over $100 per person. A quick search on The Google suggests 41% have TRIED pot, much less smoke it regularly. I therefore think the 1.4B figure is BS, would love to see how they came up with it. I know only a couple people who spend more than a couple hundred a year on weed, but maybe I just hang out with all the wrong people.


Well, there's the fact that as soon as weed is made legal, or even medicinalized, it tends to get sold more easily in neighboring states. So it's not as simple as just the populations of CO and WA.

But still, I buy Hank's observation that even before the gradual decriminalization, medicinalization, and then legalization of cannabis in a few states, nobody that I've known used Mexican product. So, unless there's $1.5 billion being spent by high school dirtheads, that number is off.


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By nick manning
From superior,az
Feb 3, 2013

I'm also puzzled by the question of who actually is buying all the mexican dirt weed.

Who actually smokes that dog shit? They bring it in by the ton to be bought buy who? Does the urban community smoke all that shit? I do know that east coast Jamaicans are routinely caught buying hundred pound quantities in AZ. I know because I used to stop and arrest them coming out of PHX on their way back LOL! 5 jamaicans driving a brand new gold caddy with NY plates tends to draw law enforcement attention in AZ.Surprisingly they had several hundred pounds of Mexican brickweed in the trunk.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Feb 3, 2013
modern man

there is a trailer park/ghetto in every town in the USA that needs weed that costs half as much or less as the super crippling sticky stank that we all see going for 400 bucks an ounce. From what I have seen the sexi mexi has gotten a bit more green since the 80s but I'm sure its still good for a headache after all the insecticides and fertilizers go up in flame. I doubt one of those electric incinerator thingies all the hippies use now could help with that.

I thought the Mexicans had moved all of their operations into our own high mountain ranges anyways so they could grow better weed without the transportation costs.

Are you a border patrol Nick?


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Feb 3, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!

TRmasta wrote:
there is a trailer park/ghetto in every town in the USA that needs weed that costs half as much or less as the super crippling sticky stank that we all see going for 400 bucks an ounce. From what I have seen the sexi mexi has gotten a bit more green since the 80s but I'm sure its still good for a headache after all the insecticides and fertilizers go up in flame.


Heh, yeah, white middle class college grad climbers might have a skewed perspective on what type of weed is most prevalent throughout the US. First world problems, indeed.


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By nick manning
From superior,az
Feb 3, 2013

camhead wrote:
Heh, yeah, white middle class college grad climbers might have a skewed perspective on what type of weed is most prevalent throughout the US. First world problems, indeed.

nobody is wondering what is most prevalent, just wondering who is buying the ton quantities that are fueling these cartels.


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By RockyMtnTed
Feb 3, 2013

camhead wrote:
Heh, yeah, white middle class college grad climbers might have a skewed perspective on what type of weed is most prevalent throughout the US. First world problems, indeed.


Yep ya missed the point on that one..


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By TWK
Feb 3, 2013

Regarding the question "Is it safe to travel in Mexico?":

I live and work in northern California, and interact with a lot of Mexican ex-pats. You know, the woman who cuts my hair every 4 months, the house painter, a co-worker, the neighborhood yard guy, the concrete guy, etc.

Every single one of them said, when asked, that NO it is not safe to travel in most parts of Mexico. They miss their country, they miss their extended families, but, hell, NO, they don't even go to visit anymore. They're afraid of being kidnapped because people DOWN THERE think you must be rich if you live UP HERE. They're also afraid of random violence``every Mexican ex-pat I talk to.

Yeah, the 2nd amendment and gun nut types here are a freaking embarrassment and make me paranoid enough want to pack my .44 when I go out, but it's total bullshit to compare violent crime HERE to THERE.


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By Zachary Brock
Feb 3, 2013

I was there the first two weeks in January and while yes, this is a tragedy and eerie occurrence to happen so close to where I spent my time so recently, I would definitely go back. Tourists and climbers aren't being deliberately targeted and the people of Hidalgo are friendly folks who want climbers to come to their town. Plus the climbing is great.


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Feb 4, 2013
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

camhead wrote:
..nobody that I've known used Mexican product.


I feel like I'm picking on you tonight. But then I feel like you haven't a clue. I'm really torn.

Both statements are probably true.

Edit:
camhead wrote:
white middle class college grad climbers might have a skewed perspective on what type of weed is most prevalent throughout the US.


Just read this. Definitely cemented the assertion that you don't have a clue. If you're a climber, you know somebody that has smoked Mexican weed. Just sayin'.


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Feb 4, 2013
El Chorro

Do you guys seriously think that everyone can afford to pay 60-80 bucks for a eighth of weed? You can get an OZ of mexishwag for that much and that is what the majority of Americans smoke. Pretty safe bet that if you have enough money to go rock climbing then you also have enough money to buy the good stuff. But for every person in the US who has that kind of expendable income, there are two or three people who don't.

Seriously, you guys need to step out of your bubble every once in a while.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Feb 4, 2013

Ryan, if you are paying that much for an eighth, you are in a bubble and are getting seriously ripped off. Shwag has very low thc content, and will give you a paranoid headache and is way worse on your lungs and is probably smells like gasoline because the gastank is where it was smuggled. You don't need to be buying the Mega chronic to get decent weed for 40-60 an eighth.

I see you are are a Londoner? Perhaps you enjoy the hash smuggled via Paki-ass to the local Skunk?

Do you buy cheap beer just cuz it is cheaper and makes you feel like a commoner? Are you an ironic Hipster?

Buying cheap, weak, mexishwag supports the cartels and a whole industry of human suffering.


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By Charles Perry
Nov 3, 2013

Although this was a horrific event it does not seem to be habitual in Hildago or EPC and from what have been reading, and more importantly, not focused on the climbing community.It seems that the violence is mainly Cartel on Cartel related. Have not heard of any American kidnappings in Hildago or climbers that were hassled.
Partying in a place with local people you do not know would seem to elevate uncertainty and risk for you really don't know if the are cartel affiliated or not. Correct me if I am wrong here; but it would seem if one would stay out of town late at night, hang close to or in Posada's and just go back and forth to the crags your odds of getting involved in such events would be slim to none. Have not been down to EPC in years and planning a trip in January. If the above statement is incorrect, please let me know for Red Rocks could be a reality.


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By Jack Sparrow
From denver, co
Nov 3, 2013

Go to potero, was there in march right after the incident, all was well. Just be smart and dont hang out in town or in monterrey after dark.


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