Potrero Chico Accident: Any more info?

climbing.com/news/two-climb…

Jesus, that's awful. Of the rappels I have done in the Potrero, the one off the back of Estrellita has always been my least favorite due to the possibility of getting your ropes stuck making the traverse to the long, free drops from that upper ledge with the palm tree on it.

supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

In both instances the climbers were on long rappel. In both cases the rope ends were not knotted.

Could this have saved the lives of the climbers? I don't know, but I'd take that bet over not, everytime.

Knot the ends on long rappels! Take the time to do it. Even more so when you are tired, jet lagged, it is dark out, or whatnot.

Condolences to the family. Sad to hear.

That is awful!

When I went to El Potrero chico my climbing partner provided the muscle (being stronger and more bold with the leads), and I provided the rappelling set-ups (being the cautious safe person).

Definitely always knot the ends of my rope on multipitch rappels (all except for single pitch climbs where I know the rope is touching the ground). It can be a pain in the ass, when all you want to do is get down and finish the chore of rappelling.

such a bummer way to remind everyone to knot their ropes. I do it every time, even on single pitch sport routes, because good practice makes good habit.

Always unfortunate hearing this kind of stuff and the loss of a couple great climbers. Rappelling heebie jeebies fully re-instilled!

Condolences to all involved. I'll 2nd the knot reminder. Climb safe, but rap even safer.

Please refrain from commenting with any names of the fallen climbers. Families have requested that the names remain offline while loved ones are still being informed. Please respect these wishes.

It's not quite as simple as "always knot the ends" @ EPC.
There are numerous things to hang up on. The face is less than vertical with tons of cactus, flakes and cracks. High winds at the upper pitches can and do blow ropes into the worst spots.
Swinging around from side to side getting to the stuck ropes is a nuisance and can have its own hazard. Possibly dislodging rocks above you.

Rapping 10-20 pitches and having knots get stuck sometimes numerous times per rap can change your mind about knots. So can a couple of deaths.

What I'm tying to say is it's not always black and white when managing speed and safety.

My condolences to both families.
RIP

rocknice2 wrote:It's not quite as simple as "always knot the ends" @ EPC. There are numerous things to hang up on. The face is less than vertical with tons of cactus, flakes and cracks. High winds at the upper pitches can and do blow ropes into the worst spots. Swinging around from side to side getting to the stuck ropes is a nuisance and can have its own hazard. Possibly dislodging rocks above you. Rapping 10-20 pitches and having knots get stuck sometimes numerous times per rap can change your mind about knots. So can a couple of deaths. What I'm tying to say is our not always black and white when managing speed and safety. My condolences to both families. RIP

I climbed the big stuff at epc last year (sans twz) and we tied knots every time. Sometimes we saddle bagged the ropes if it was a traversing rappel or if there were obvious things to get caught on, but most of the time we just lowered most of the rope. It added maybe a half hour to rappelling on the longer lines (yankee clipper, snot grrrlz, etc) but that half hour is well worth it to me. I understand that it's not always black or white to toss your rope because it might get stuck, but tying knots, especially at a place like epc where some of the rapps are rope-stretchers, seems like black and white to me.

Pre-rigging the rappels would have saved at least one of these lives.

rocknice2 wrote:It's not quite as simple as "always knot the ends" @ EPC. There are numerous things to hang up on. The face is less than vertical with tons of cactus, flakes and cracks. High winds at the upper pitches can and do blow ropes into the worst spots. Swinging around from side to side getting to the stuck ropes is a nuisance and can have its own hazard. Possibly dislodging rocks above you. Rapping 10-20 pitches and having knots get stuck sometimes numerous times per rap can change your mind about knots. So can a couple of deaths. What I'm tying to say is our not always black and white when managing speed and safety. My condolences to both families. RIP

I agree with the part about the ropes getting stuck - during one of my rappels, the knot got stuck in a flake. I didn't realize this until I was way past where it was stuck, and had to climb a ways up to free it. Luckily, this is when I was still using an autoblock as I had been taught in a class I took at the gym. I climbed up to free the knot from the flake (getting poked by numerous cactii) but because I had the autoblock (or prussik if you prefer) I was able to climb up quite a bit and work to free the knot without risking a big fall.

If tying knots is semi-annoying, an autoblock is super-duper annoying, because I don't weigh as much as they create the devices for, and it is embarassingly difficult for me to start a rappel, or even to continue on a rappel without bouncing especially when pushing down the autoblock.

But I disagree that tying knots is more dangerous than not tying a knot. Please don't put that in anyone's head. Tying knots is non-negotiable for me, and I'm glad I used an autoblock that day so I could free the knot. I no longer use one, but I think I will make that a habit again. So what I am trying to say is... also use an autoblock. Maybe your friends will laugh at you and call you an over cautious ninny, and maybe it adds a little bit of effort and maybe time (being tired and hungry by the rappels you can bet I did not want to go through these extra steps, but that is the most opportune time for error) but it's better than the alternative.

"In both instances the climbers were on long rappel. In both cases the rope ends were not knotted. "

The above is all that really needs to be said about knots. One-way rules are simply too myopic ... even if coming from someone who has actually managed to get up twenty three pitches and returned to the base within daylight hours.

P.S. A more significant issue in the Time Wave Zero case was the danger of using a rope that previously had one end trimmed ... at each rap trying to offset from the middle mark to make up for it ... all while very focused on time ... and when nearing the end of a very ambitious day.

Ana Tine wrote:If tying knots is semi-annoying, an autoblock is super-duper annoying, because I don't weigh as much as they create the devices for, and it is embarassingly difficult for me to start a rappel, or even to continue on a rappel without bouncing especially when pushing down the autoblock.

Just curious, do you put your autoblock rappel backup above or below the belay device?

aikibujin wrote: Just curious, do you put your autoblock rappel backup above or below the belay device?

I put it below the belay device, attached to my leg loop. It would be awkward to get it above the device.

Awful news. Condolences to friends and family.

Bill Lawry wrote:" P.S. A more significant issue in the Time Wave Zero case was the danger of using a rope that previously had one end trimmed ... at each rap trying to offset from the middle mark to make up for it ... all while very focused on time ... and when nearing the end of a very ambitious day.

I think that is a big contributing factor, but not the more significant issue. Even without the offset, a person could rap off the unknotted ends of their rope if they missed the last set of anchors (i.e. hard to see, dark).

Ana Tine wrote: I think that is a big contributing factor, but not the more significant issue. Even without the offset, a person could rap off the unknotted ends of their rope if they missed the last set of anchors (i.e. hard to see, dark).

I'd tug on the other end of the bone on this one. Do we really want to say the one action which would have saved him should always be done by all?

I've been in the dark, pulling on a rope who's knotted end was stuck in a crack.

Ana Tine wrote: I put it below the belay device, attached to my leg loop. It would be awkward to get it above the device.

That's what I guessed, but I'm just really surprised that you would have so much trouble with an autoblock below the belay device backup. You're probably getting too much friction from the autoblock. If you're using three wraps, try two. If you're using 5mm cords, try 4mm. Basically try something that reduces the friction.

Bill Lawry wrote: I'd tug on the other end of the bone on this one. Do we really want to say the one action which would have saved him should always be done by all? I've been in the dark, pulling on a rope who's knotted end was stuck in a crack.

You don't have to knot the ends of the rope if you don't want, definitely your own choice, and I'm not the knot-police. But I'm going to. I'd opt to be there all night freeing knots using a headlamp than to slip off the ends.

As mentioned above, I've also gone up to retrive a knot in a crack at the end of a long day when I didn't really feel like it. There are other options than throwing the rope. How about coiling the rope and carrying it down during the rappel? It will take a very long time but it won't get stuck "in some unknown flake or cactus" in the dark.

If the main contributing factor was the unevenly marked rope, that is even more reason to knot. But even without the uneven marking, I'd rather not take that chance. Plus habit-forming is key, so it won't feel like such a chore if a person normally has an evenly marked rope and now they don't.