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PLEASE REPLY..... This is for my stats class...... Four simple quesitons
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Mar 17, 2011
Just as I suspected...90% of mountainproject people climbs in the 12s. wankel7
From Indiana
Joined Oct 4, 2010
17 points
Mar 17, 2011
The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogsti...
wankel7 wrote:
Just as I suspected...90% of mountainproject people climbs in the 12s.


Yeah, right. Has that statistics course mentioned the almost unlimited sources of bias in voluntary-response questionnaires?

The only conclusions that can be drawn from such instruments have the form "x % of those responding claim to climb 5.12 or harder..." No valid information about the full MP population can be obtained from instruments such as these (unless you get full participation, which of course you will not).
rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Joined Feb 15, 2008
263 points
Mar 17, 2011
wankel7 wrote:
Just as I suspected...90% of mountainproject people climbs in the 12s.

The question asked for your hardest lead, not what you're presently leading.

I'm not leading .12s right now. I could probably get back on easy .12 sport given some time away from work and family (big if). Let's face it, a .12a at a place like Williamson or New Jack isn't that big of a deal, especially if you get your laps in at the gym. .12 trad, that's another story.
Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Joined Nov 9, 2007
137 points
Mar 17, 2011
maple canyon climb, first ice climb
Up until this point, I might have mis-counted and some answers had to be interpreted(read: 'not cleanly' counts as a no), but we have 44 no and 57 yes. It's about what I'd expect considering most people are posting that they've been climbing for several years. I hope I'm in the 12's soon but who knows. There might be a bit of exaggeration going on but I doubt it's on the scale that the previous posters might expect. I'd hate to claim something untrue only to be caught in a lie later. That's gotta suck. Tyson Taylor
Joined Sep 3, 2010
100 points
Mar 17, 2011
piney creek canyon
yes, both
3-4 years
no
5.10c
Richard88
From Sheridan, WY
Joined Dec 13, 2009
45 points
Mar 17, 2011
Climbing at Frog Buttress
1)Yes
2)17 years
3)Yes
4)12a trad, 12c sport. Climbed first 5.12 after three and a half years and climbed my last 5.12 about eleven years ago. So, I was only a real climber for about three years.
kachoong
From The Outback, Texas
Joined Jan 22, 2010
190 points
Mar 17, 2011
Showing off Johns almighty poop tube on the top of...
#1 Yes, Both
#2 14 Years
#3 Yes, Trad & Sport, Gym & Outdoors
#4 5.12c, both trad & sport
Steven Lucarelli
From Moab, UT
Joined Jul 8, 2005
4,371 points
Mar 17, 2011
The Shield
He did offer his email address... just sayin'. Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Joined Apr 9, 2006
2,224 points
Mar 17, 2011
First climb after knee surgery
JLP wrote:
I think the correct takeaway is that 90% of people who feel the need to publicly announce their grade (OP gave option of PM) climbed at least a single 12 one fine day long ago - maybe. What they actually climb regularly is another story. We need an 8a.nu feature here that does a more effective job of ranking. I bet it would at least triple traffic on this site.


Now most people will take offense but lets get real, 5.12 sport or trad nowadays isn't anything special in the big picture. Among individual climbers for whom its a goal that is a different story and it may feel like a rather unattainable goal. But the number who climb regularly at that level (either sport or trad) is a surprising number of people and as a percentage, in some communities its a rather high percentage.

Hell, last fall there was a line of individuals trying to get onto a 5.13 crack at Indian Creek, with the person first in line a 13 year old kid.
chuck claude
From Flagstaff, Az
Joined Jul 24, 2006
269 points
Administrator
Mar 17, 2011
The Hammer
1- Yes, both
2- 28 years
3- Yes
4- 13c
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,453 points
Mar 17, 2011
First climb after knee surgery
JLP wrote:
The stats have been looked at here in the past - looking at R&I surveys, a scan of profiles on the partner finder, etc. We're talking less than 5%, which I would agree with - on the high side. Are you talking about Ruby's Cafe in IC? I think that's a consensus 12. Regardless - how many of those people "in line" sent the route - or will EVER send the route? If this is your example, it's a very bad one. I think the "isn't anything special" is an illusion, too, created by all the recent multimedia of a few - who are also not necessarily sending routes. Real 12's are hard. The only place it's "not anything special" is in Boulder Canyon and the climbing gym. I've seen a lot of the people above out climbing. I have to say I'm surprised both ways by some of the above posts and claims. slim and Steve, for example, have likely racked up more 12's than 99.9%, yet reported mid 12 as their hardest. slim probably downgraded a 13c to 12c. Steve is solid when you watch him climb the grade and has been actively climbing at it for a long time, yet it's easy to compare him by the #'s to someone who projects the same forever, fails, claims they "lead 5.12" - then goes back to their regular diet of 5.10 routes.


Touched a nerve I see......... I suppose the illusion depends on who your peer group is. Hell, I'm just an old fart with a full time job (scientist) and full time responsibilities. Yep, haven't led a 5.10 in years (that I can remember but maybe that's the Alzhiemers setting in).

Heck, maybe its your peer group but living in a small town in nowhere's-ville, and most of the people (men and some women) I climb with climb circles around me, and I fumble my way up a couple 5.12 cracks a week.
chuck claude
From Flagstaff, Az
Joined Jul 24, 2006
269 points
Mar 17, 2011
climbing at avalon
Question #1. Do you lead climb (trad or sport)? Yes/No
YES

Question #2. If you lead climb how long have you been lead climbing?
TWO YEARS

Question #3. Have you ever lead a 5.12 or harder?(gym or outdoors)
(trad or sport) Yes/No
YES

Question #4. If you have lead a 5.12 or harder what was the rating?
If you have not what is the hardest rating you lead?
5.12A
Jean Spencer
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 14, 2009
155 points
Mar 18, 2011
spot fire city
Yes
4 years
No
5.10
Smokemonkey
Joined Nov 10, 2010
6 points
Mar 18, 2011
route photo
Another major issue is the consistency of grading a climb. Routes put up in the 60's 70's 80's are totally different from routes grades in the 90's and 2000's. A 1970's 5.10 in SOME area's could be considered hard .11. Where as a 5.10 route put up in, let's say the 2000's is nowhere near the same as a 70's 5.10 route, IMHO. Brent Butcher
Joined Nov 18, 2010
314 points
Mar 18, 2011
Climbing at Frog Buttress
Year of ascent certainly matters, when you're talking this grade and before the 80's. Wasn't it John Gill who put up the first (now graded) 5.12? I think I remember him writing somewhere of his ascent of The Thimble in 1961 by it's steep face, which is now graded 12. kachoong
From The Outback, Texas
Joined Jan 22, 2010
190 points
Mar 18, 2011
JLP wrote:
We need an 8a.nu feature here ...


I disagree, and hope that you were being sarcastic.
Mike Anderson
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Nov 15, 2004
3,094 points
Mar 18, 2011
Crux Move
Also, the OP asked if you have ever LEAD a 5.12 or harder. This would suggest just getting on one and hanging your way up it would count.

Sending is entirely different from leading, folks.
Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Joined Jun 20, 2008
2,113 points
Mar 18, 2011
Crux Move
I guess I should add my input instead of just fueling the discussion.

1) Yes, both
2) 2.5 years
3) Yes
4) 12a sport (bocan, does that count?)
11- trad
Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Joined Jun 20, 2008
2,113 points
Administrator
Mar 18, 2011
The Hammer
JLP wrote:
Of course, OS is worth more than whacking off at the base - though I think the latter should be worth a few points for at least getting out!


Do I get extra points for whacking off at the top?
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,453 points
Mar 18, 2011
The Shield
M Sprague wrote:
Do I get extra points for whacking off at the top?

Depends... who did you whack off?
Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Joined Apr 9, 2006
2,224 points
Mar 18, 2011
Yes
13 years
yes
13a
Southern Alex
Joined Mar 5, 2010
6 points
Administrator
Mar 18, 2011
Moby dick 5.11-
Yes both
4 years
Yes outdoors
5.12c on bolts
Dom
From New Brunswick Canada
Joined Dec 8, 2007
1,173 points
Mar 19, 2011
1. Yes sport
2. One year
3. Yes outdoors
4. 5.12c
Ryan C.
From Woodbury, MN
Joined Jun 15, 2010
15 points
Mar 20, 2011
personal photo
1: yes
2: 35 years
3: yes
4: 5.13
Mic Fairchild
From Boulder
Joined Jan 14, 2003
401 points
Mar 20, 2011
Crested Butte, looking for a landing . . .
1) Yes
2) 22 years
3) Yes
4) 12
John Maurer
From Denver, CO
Joined Jun 3, 2008
389 points


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