Please change campground info for the new river gorge

I emailed one of the area admins about this a few days ago, but have not heard back from him. Can someone please change the camping info for the New River Gorge, so that it does not say that the American Alpine Club campground is free? I'm managing the place, and keep getting irate campers who are like, "but mountainproject says it's free! Why do I have to pay?"

Seriously, if you guys need a new admin for the area, I'd be happy to do it.

Paul...I can't imagine how annoying that is. I'd even shoulder the admin duties for the NRG. It does need some cleaning up it seems.

I posted a notice in the admin forum so hopefully should get seen by someone with permissions. . .

Even funnier is that the recommended "guidebook" is the old Steve Cater NRG Guide. So out of date...

+1 for actively involved admin.

J Watts wrote:+1 for actively involved admin.

For better or worse sometimes... ;-)

Thanks. And yes, I would be happy to admin the area. Not going to plagiarize Mikey's book anytime soon, though.

camhead wrote:Thanks. And yes, I would be happy to admin the area. Not going to plagiarize Mikey's book anytime soon, though.

I don't even think Mikey wants to try and plagiarize Mikey's book.

Jake Jones wrote:I didn't mean plagiarize. What I mean is simply this: There are 3 main areas in Mike's book. NRG proper, Meadow, and Summersville areas. An example digging down is that here on MP, Fern Buttress is part of Endless Wall. In Mike's book, it's not. I kind of like his organization better. I'm not suggesting anyone copy anything directly out of his book. Personally, even if I have been to an area multiple times and know all the route locations and beta, I still will not add it (if it is missing for that area) until I have climbed it. I don't think anyone else should, either. But that's just me. If reorganizing areas to more closely match Mike's book is or could be construed to be plagiarism, then I agree with you. I guess I just do not consider it to be. YMMV. Thanks.

Naw, it was a joke. And I agree that the areas in the nrg need organization.

I'm just helping Ladd out, he's probably out busy with something.

It's updated to:

The American Alpine Club campground at the New River Gorge is a climber’s dream… inexpensive camping walking distance from the Junkyard and Bridge areas. This new facility was built in 2012 and will be expanded in 2013. Join the American Alpine Club to support this project. It is open year round.

More Info.

Hope that works for everyone. Remember, we admins do this around all the other things in life: family, spouse, kids, pets, jobs, volunteer work, and ... our own climbing. Plus, sometimes email and internet issues are fallible. Cheers!

Leo Paik wrote:I'm just helping Ladd out, he's probably out busy with something. It's updated to: The American Alpine Club campground at the New River Gorge is a climber’s dream… inexpensive camping walking distance from the Junkyard and Bridge areas. This new facility was built in 2012 and will be expanded in 2013. Join the American Alpine Club to support this project. It is open year round. More Info. Hope that works for everyone. Remember, we admins do this around all the other things in life: family, spouse, kids, pets, jobs, volunteer work, and ... our own climbing. Plus, sometimes email and internet issues are fallible. Cheers!

Thanks. You could put the prices in, too, if you want: $5/night for AAC members, $6 for AF members, $7 for everyone else. The link to the AAC's membership page is really cool, too, thanks.

The whole NRG section needs a lot of work. If you want someone who is more of a local to admin, seriously, give me a shout.

Jake Jones wrote:You may want to add Ray's Campground too. People I know that were looking for an alternative to other places, rave about Ray's. Same prices as Chestnut Creek, and located in Hico between Meadow and NRG proper- near the intersection of 60 and 19. I'm gonna try it out this fall. I would stay at AAC, but I dig warm showers when it's gonna be cold at night. No offense, Paul.

Haha, no offense taken. It would be nice if they would jump on getting running water and showers a bit more aggressively for the fall season.

There is a lot of info that needs to be updated on the page. New campgrounds, new restaurants, new guidebooks... like I said, I'm offering.

Camhead and Jake, I updated the page to include your info...again pinch hitting for Ladd.

If you are wanting to take over the page, contact Ladd and/or the site landlords. However, remember that the era of the internet had made us much less patient than we used to be as a population. I recall once taking this short 1 month break from the internet as I slogged up a 22K peak, traveling, acclimatizing, getting ill, summiting, etc. all without the access to the internet on a climber's budget.

Leo Paik wrote:However, remember that the era of the internet had made us much less patient than we used to be as a population.

I understand. But for a seminal and comprehensive quitebook to have come out on the region three years ago, and not have been yet added to this site's description... I think that's pushing it as far as time goes.

Yeah seeing how I am on here all of the time, I think a site as big as mountain project should have local climbers as the area admins. For both validity of the content and for the help of the general community.

No offense to Ladd or any of the other admins at all by any of this, but it seems to me that if the admin for an area can't reply to messages on here about pressing issues then ANOTHER admin should step up and find someone new. Ie camhead, phd motherfuckers.

Camhead and Chris, your points are well taken. However, recall that not that many years ago, the way things went for the website was to try to do things independently of guidebooks...so we didn't even used to list guidebooks. Not all of us think alike. Some guidebook authors even take offense or threaten legal sequela when anything from the guidebooks are listed on this site. Hmmm.

While your issue about the AAC campground is a very useful update, remember that some may consider this a frill/perk/extra to the core of the website...the route database. Also, this forum has been on the website for only 4 days. I've taken plenty of trips where I'm completely not on the website for 7 days, haven't you?

Finally, anyone using a moniker of "phd motherfuckers" is highly unlikely to be selected as an admin. Most of us would cringe at just seeing that on our website if it was a family member or friend wanting to see exactly what our website, one where we devote a bunch of time and energy, is all about. Respectfully, our audience is fairly broad...it even includes my kids, FWIW.

Leo Paik wrote:Camhead and Chris, your points are well taken. However, recall that not that many years ago, the way things went for the website was to try to do things independently of guidebooks...so we didn't even used to list guidebooks. Not all of us think alike. Some guidebook authors even take offense or threaten legal sequela when anything from the guidebooks are listed on this site.

So basically what you are saying is that it is OK for someone to go and add a bunch of routes to a database, but the organisation and quality of the submissions isn't important? If the idea behind Mountain Project is to keep people from buying guidebooks, then I want nothing to do with it. Guidebook authors (e.g. Mike Williams) go to great lengths to put together such amazing books and they are only trying to recoup the money they've spent. And if the idea of this site IS to keep people from having to buy books, posting current and relevant camping information is even more important.

I always thought the idea of Mountain Project was to give people a broader sense of what is actually out there to climb. The information given should be informative and organised in a way that offers users options and advice. Personally, I want a FULL description of all guidebooks to areas as big as the NRG - that way I can make an educated decision where to spend my money and who to support. Same goes for camping and local businesses.

Submissions should be organised in a way that helps potential visitors choose where to spend their money, which ultimately supports the local climbing areas, guidebook authors, campground owners, etc. That's progress and it's something I'd like to be a part of. See the Thailand section if you want an idea of what I am talking about. I can't take credit for much of it, but I try to make sure it is relatively current.

camhead has climbed at the New as much as anyone I know and apparently is now living there (when did that happen dude? Awesome btw!). He's offered several times to take on quite a large job. I don't understand why people are making excuses. No one is saying the current guy is doing anything wrong.

Shit, all I had to do to become an admin was ask and I'm barely half as smart and dedicated to climbing as camhead.

Leo Paik wrote:Finally, anyone using a moniker of "phd motherfuckers" is highly unlikely to be selected as an admin. Most of us would cringe at just seeing that on our website if it was a family member or friend wanting to see exactly what our website, one where we devote a bunch of time and energy, is all about. Respectfully, our audience is fairly broad...it even includes my kids, FWIW.

He won me over.

camhead for admin! Or Fred Gomez. That dude's route descriptions are works of art.

Uhhh, the "phd morherfuckers" was from my friend Chris, not me. We are two different people. I'm sorry that I've offered some constructive criticism, but am unlikely to be an admin because a friend referred to me with the f word.

Like I said before, I'd be psyched to clean up the routes db for the nrg. I know the guidebook author and would not infringe on his work; it's just that a lot has changed here since Ladd put in the original descriptions, as it would be cool to have someone admin who is a bit more engaged with one of the best crags in the nation. Take it or leave it.

Oh, and thanks for the props, Ryan and Chris.

Ryan, you completely misunderstood my post. Sorry, I was not clear. I would prefer to talk with you (or meet you in person) to discuss this. I have absolutely no intention to replace guidebooks. I have a TON of them. I have great admiration for local guidebook authors like Richard Rossiter, Bernard Gillett, Ken Trout, Ben Bruestle, Steve Levin, Steve ("Crusher") Bartlett, Eric Bjornstad, Mark Rolofson, Richard DuMais, Cameron Burns, the late Jack Roberts, Stewart Green, Scott Kimball, etc. I completely encourage folks getting guidebooks!

Camhead, I do not know you. I don't even know your real name. Nor do I decide who gets to or not be an admin. I was simply trying to help and encourage some patience and understanding. I appreciate your constructive stuff, that's why I tried to help out. Hopefully you contacted Ladd, Nick, and Andy.

For all those who forget, this whole website thing started out as a classroom homework assignment for a couple of students who happened to be climbers. It's grown.

Leo, thanks for replying to this thread and keeping up on giving us the admin perspective. Ladd did shoot me an email, and we're going from there. I try to keep my real name separate from "camhead" due to way too much tomfoolery on rc.com over the past decade, but plenty of people on this site know me in person, and I always use my real name in private correspondence.