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Pineapple Juice 

YDS: 5.11b French: 6c Ewbanks: 23 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 23 British: E3 5c

   
Type:  Trad, Sport, 1 pitch, 100'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.11b French: 6c Ewbanks: 23 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 23 British: E3 5c [details]
FA: Smedley, Larsen, Anderson
Page Views: 1,141
Submitted By: justin dubois on Mar 23, 2002

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (6)
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ummmm...pineapple juice.

Season raptor closures MORE INFO >>>

Description 

The rounded arete downhill and left from Orange Julius. Start on the left and boulder up onto a detached block. Climb right onto the face and climb up past five bolts to a tree belay. Bring cams and small nuts for the flakes past the third bolt.

This is an excellent pitch, with a whole lot of hard climbing packed into its 100'.

Protection 

Five draws and a selection of small to medium cams.


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By Bob Rotert
May 18, 2008
rating: 5.11b/c 6c+ 23 VIII- 24 E4 6a

This really a good face route, but boy is it in bad need of rebolting. Except for the first bolt, which by the way is 40 ft off the deck and protecting the crux moves. The remaining bolts are very rusty & look like old 5/16th inch bolts with homemade hangers. It would be nice to see this route rebolted and maybe an extra bolt installed at the first bolt just for some redundancy. If you can't use the same hole in a bolt replacement/upgrade project just leave the first bolt in instead of chopping it. I know this is not a common practice, but I have seen too many bolt failures over my years of cimbing. I hate doing very hard, insecure moves with only a single bolt between you and a possible trip to the morgue or wheel chair. Having a backup bolt at the first bolt, just for redundancy, would not contradict the nature of the climb & could save someone's life some day if the first bolt failed.

On another note. Once your second comes up & joins you. You can rap from the anchors with a 60 meter rope to the climbers right & make it to the ground on this pitch.
By Kelly Cordes
May 21, 2008

Howdy Bob,

With all respect, I disagree on the notion of needing another bolt down low: "maybe an extra bolt installed at the first bolt just for some redundancy."

I've done this route a few times (and it's appx at my onsight ability, so I think I'm being fair here), and though it's a bit exciting in spots, seems to me that, for the grade, it's not overly dangerous. You do have to make a tiny move to clip the first bolt (again, for the grade, though? Not a big deal at all), and you could have gear below there if you're leading from the ground. It'd be ugly IF the bolt failed, sure, but I doubt ya'd deck.

Personally, I've usually scrambled up to that block/ledge with my partner, put in a belay and started from there. If that bolt blew -- as you noted, it happens, but, damn, it's soooooo unlikely with a good bolt like that (how far do we take the "just in case" thing?) -- ya wouldn't deck unless your belayer couldn't hold you (I don't think it'd be a full-on factor 2 based on the setup there; plus, again, realistically...a fat bolt like that failing? How far do weed need to sanitize things?).

Also, as you well know from your experience, which is extensive, there's some value to keeping routes in-character with the place. For Lumpy, I think this is a tremendous route, it's one of my favorites. A bit spooky maybe, ya gotta place some gear, deal with some thin slab, some flared crack, but you'd really have to screw it up to get hurt.

Above I mentioned "how far do we take the 'just in case' thing?" To that I'd add that I'm fairly certain the route could be TR'd after leading up Orange Julius if someone was overly concerned about that bomber first bolt pulling, and their gear below that (in the blocky ledge) also pulling, and/or their inability to place good gear in the cracks higher up.

I think you've got a fair-enough point about the old bolts above, though.

Thanks for listening.

Kelly
By Bob Rotert
May 22, 2008
rating: 5.11b/c 6c+ 23 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Kelly? The Kelly Cordes!! \;o)

Thanks for your response Kelly. Sounds like you interpreted I was advocating adding another bolt down low. I'm learning you have to be careful what you write on these comments. And you're right, it's absolutely no issue clipping the first bolt. The thing that scared me was doing the hard moves above the single bolt 40 plus feet off the deck, with nothing in between, and thinking what would happen if it broke if I fell on it. At the time, I didn't suss out an existing way to backup this first bolt to keep you off the ground if it failed.

What I was thinking, and advocating, is if this thing is re bolted in the future. Leave the existing bolt there and add another next to it to help with the redundancy issue. This would add a safety factor to that supposed bomber bolt, which by the way is starting to corrode, which is the only thing that will keep you off the ground, but in no way change the nature of the climbing/route. I have seen that done before and many times the same hole is not re used when bolts are replaced.

You mention having your belayer up or placing gear that might keep you off the ground. I guess I didn't really see or notice that as an option when we were up there, but if that can be done it would certainly help with the issue.

You're right, it's hard to determine how far to take this. It could be taken to the extreme. And I know many would think that is exactly what I am doing by advocating this option. I am a proponent of maintaining some of the risk and character in climbing an not sanitizing routes as many of us climb because we enjoy some of the risks involved. However bolts should be bomber but are not always and there is no way to tell if they are. I have personally had bomber looking bolts fail on me over my years of climbing. One that I placed myself on a route, a couple on the third ascent of Aquarian Wall on El Cap and third incident was a nice fat looking 3/8th in Thailand. None looked bad on the surface....

I guess I'm unlucky with bolts. But because of those experiences I'm pretty gun shy when it comes to trusting bolts and doing some very hard, insecure climbing above a single bolt and a serious ground fall. I have done it many times, but I never like to do it. If there is at least something in between it helps. Otherwise, I tend to climb with the mindset that I'm soloing until I am into at least 2 pieces between me and the ground. I always feel better once your up a bit & know there is at least 2 bolts between you and the ground.

My suggestion maybe considered by some "over the top", but it is food for thought....

Cheers!!
By Eli Helmuth
From: Estes Park, CO
May 22, 2008

"Over the top" is my vote.

The carabiners or sling on the draw are much more likely to break than that particular bolt which I believe is a 3/8", 4 yr. old 5pc. Rawl (from the ASCA) that I replaced in the original hole. I wouldn't compare it to a Krabi bolt or a 1/4" in Yosemite any more than I would compare it to the fixed pin on P1 of C'est La Vie in Eldo.

I haven't gotten around to replacing the upper bolts on this stellar pitch, as the first was so hard to remove I figured they weren't as bad as they looked.

Using this principle of "bolts could break", we would want to double up all bolts off the ground, at cruxes, or anyplace you could fall or get hurt- a ridiculous idea except maybe in southern Thailand. (I've done some bolt replacement there, and those old/new ones are scary. The glue-in titaniums that Sam Lightner is using seem to be doing the trick). But this is solid Lumpy granite and with big bolts, the reality is that the carabiners and slings are weaker than the bolt. If we're going to worry, let's worry about what is really the weakest link.

Really, if you want it completely safe, stay in the gym where the floors are padded and there are no West Nile carrying mosquitos or risk of rockfall and an ambulance can back-up to the door. Climbing is dangerous, let's not sanitize it completely. Did I say please?
By Bob Rotert
May 22, 2008
rating: 5.11b/c 6c+ 23 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Eli? The Eli Helmuth!!!

Never thought I would get such response from so many respectable, Bad Ass climbers from this post!! \;o) Thanks for replacing the first bolt, Eli. Much appreciated!! It's good to hear you say you have a lot of confidence in it. At least....

Doubling up/backing up with 2 draws & biners is an available option on critical clip ins. One I use often in this type of situation. I saw this as a situation where there isn't another option for backup/redundancy. But I would expect to get the same response you gave from most folks.

Eli in my opinion climbing in the Gym is NOT climbing.... So, that is a ridiculous option. \;o) Let me know if you want someone to go up & help you replace the remaining bolts on this climb or a $$ donation. I would be glad to contribute to that effort. As this is a very worthy climb. I will say no more.

Cheers!
By Mike Willig
Jul 12, 2008

The bolts are fine...from the ground they may look sketch, but once you clip em they are totally solid. Sweet climb.
By Cam Reade
Jun 6, 2010

Just climbed it today. The bolts are fine and in good condition. Took 2 falls on the first bolt.
By Christian Mason
From: Arvada, CO
Sep 6, 2012

There is a small paper wasp net midway up this climb. It's above the third bold, about halfway into the gear protected section.

I had just rocked left and (finally) wrapped me hand around a really positive flake. I intended to place a cam right above me hand and found a golf ball sized wasp nest with a wasp working on it where I wanted to put the gear. Traversing off to the climb to climber's right and finishing up it was fairly reasonable.