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Petzl Reverso and other "guide mode" belay devices
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By ridethejoy
From Richmond, VA
Mar 29, 2013
I've been using guide mode with my petzl reverso lately and today I was looking at the system and thought it seemed a little sketchy that in the event my follower fell everything would be reliant on that ONE loop on the device.

Obviously these things have been tested and other models seem beefier. It just seems like so much focus goes into redundancy/equalization with anchor systems and then you hook your boy up to a device with one loop holding it all together.

Thoughts opinions???

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Mar 29, 2013
You mean like the ONE link you have to your partner? The rope...

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By SDY
Mar 29, 2013
I have never been even a little stressed about that loop breaking, i imagine the rope would go long before then. I suppose if you are stressed about it you could put a sling through the locker that is through the rope part of the device and attach it to the anchor. If by some freak accident that loop broke and the device didn't completely collapse you could use it a bit like non-guide mode. If the device blew completely apart you'd still have the rope running through the locker attached to the anchor.

However, if your second somehow took a fall that blew apart your belay device....you've likely got bigger problems.

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By FosterK
From Edmonton, AB
Mar 30, 2013
One loop... do you mean the retention cable? Yeah, I'd be worried then.

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By aliebling
Mar 30, 2013
Or he's misusing the device and hanging it from the retention cable while belaying...in which case someone really is gonna die.

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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Mar 30, 2013
Mathematical!
aliebling wrote:
Or he's misusing the device and hanging it from the retention cable while belaying...in which case someone really is gonna die.


No lie. I seem to recall someone posting an accident report within the last year where they were dropped because the belayer had clipped their belay device to the anchor via the retention cable. With the device fully inverted like that, it never locks.

To the OP:

If you are just talking about the metal loop on the belay device (you know, the one you are actually supposed to use), then I wouldn't sweat it. It's several millimeters thick, and it's attached to a dynamic rope that will absorb the vast majority of the force in the event of a fall.

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By bevans
Mar 30, 2013
thread is useless without pictures...

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By bevans
Mar 30, 2013
so here we go...

just so everybody is on the same page, here's a properly rigged ATC Guide IN guide mode (happens to be rigged with double ropes):

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By Buff Johnson
Mar 30, 2013
smiley face
Stop climbing on one rope, also.

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By Micahisaac
From Longmont, CO
Mar 30, 2013
soloing Boulder Canyon Upper Falls
One ring to rule them all

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By Doug S
Mar 30, 2013
Edge of Time
Fin the Human wrote:
No lie. I seem to recall someone posting an accident report within the last year where they were dropped because the belayer had clipped their belay device to the anchor via the retention cable.

I think this is the thread: mountainproject.com/v/-turkey-...

If I remember, the leader had set up belay from anchor correctly, but then clipped the retention loop to anchor for redundancy (mistake), thus inverting the device and rendering the braking feature useless.

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By bearbreeder
Mar 30, 2013
ridethejoy wrote:
I've been using guide mode with my petzl reverso lately and today I was looking at the system and thought it seemed a little sketchy that in the event my follower fell everything would be reliant on that ONE loop on the device. Obviously these things have been tested and other models seem beefier. It just seems like so much focus goes into redundancy/equalization with anchor systems and then you hook your boy up to a device with one loop holding it all together. Thoughts opinions???


do not belay in autoblock till you get an experienced person to show you and check your system ...

you might think you know it, but by yr post, you need someone to check ... you are putting your partners life at risk

i was almost killed by someone thinking they knew how to rig the autoblock

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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Mar 30, 2013
ridethejoy wrote:
It just seems like so much focus goes into redundancy/equalization with anchor systems and then you hook your boy up to a device with one loop holding it all together.



You need to learn when redundancy and/or equalization is necessary and when it's not.

I see too many people that take some little tidbit of info (like redundancy in anchors) and spread it out all over the place willy-nilly with no real understanding at all.

To spell it out as it pertains to your question:

1. Anchor points may need to have redundancy (but not always).
2. Equipment does not have to be redundant (although it could be).

Again, go back and learn when redundancy is needed and when it's not.

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By Buff Johnson
Mar 30, 2013
smiley face
ridethejoy wrote:
...I was looking at the system and thought it seemed a little sketchy that in the event my follower fell everything would be reliant on that ONE loop on the device. ... Thoughts opinions???


If you are you talking about the retention cable, yes, someone is gonna die.

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By Gunkiemike
Mar 30, 2013
Back in pre-ATC days, I used a Figure 8 as a rappel device. It sketched me a bit to look at it in use because, unlike an ATC-type device, the rope doesn't go through the locking carabiner. I found myself thinking, "If the skinny neck between the two loops of the 8 were to break, I'd fall". Years later I hacksawed my old 8 in half to make two solid rings to use as rap rings. Let me tell you, that was the hardest aluminum alloy I ever cut through. Really tough stuff. My fears were groundless to say the least.

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By Dave Lynch
From Waseca, MN
Mar 31, 2013
Sunny day on Lost Marsupial, The Throne.
Ah, yeah, the figure eight. I remember when that went out of style without me knowing it had gone out of style. I had just moved up to Alaska & was climbing with new friends for the first time. We were on the second pitch when my friend Trish said, "Hey, cool, a figure 8. Lemme see that. You know what these are good for?" I handed it over and she tossed it off the climb.

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By jselwyn
From Grand Junction, CO
Apr 3, 2013
If you're talking about the hole for the biner, I emailed BD once about the rating on the ATC guide and its rated to 20kn.

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By ian watson
From Albuquerque, NM
Apr 3, 2013
jselwyn wrote:
If you're talking about the hole for the biner, I emailed BD once about the rating on the ATC guide and its rated to 20kn.



Did you ask them what the cable loop was rated to? Its pretty bomber I bet it would take 20 lbs.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Apr 3, 2013
Me scaring years off my mom's life
That's why I always use two ropes and two belayers when I climb. No exceptions. The second harness can get uncomfortable, but that's the price you gotta pay for safety.

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By Greg D
From Here
Apr 3, 2013
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
That loop is bomber. It will not lead to your demise.

Poor rigging and just plain wrong rigging of the autoblock mode is quite common, though. I've seen it several time. This could get you killed.

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By Brian Hudson
From Lenoir, NC
Apr 4, 2013
Valor Over Discretion (5.8), RRG
Austin Baird wrote:
That's why I always use two ropes and two belayers when I climb. No exceptions. The second harness can get uncomfortable, but that's the price you gotta pay for safety.

that made me laugh out loud...well done sir.

SDY wrote:
However, if your second somehow took a fall that blew apart your belay device....you've likely got bigger problems.

+1

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