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Petzl Lynx vs BD Cyborg fit
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By AK123
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 20, 2013
North Buttress Mt. Hunter, AK

Trying to decide between the Petzl Lynx & BD Cyborgs. Ultimately, it comes down to which of the 2 crampons will fit my boots (La Sportiva Spantiks size 44, & Trango Extremes size 45). Unfortunately, both boots are back in CA, as I'm back east for the semester at school, & am headed to AK to climb the day after I return to CA.

Anyone have experience with the either of these 2 crampons paired with either of these LS boots? I'll be using them primarily for technical alpine & mixed climbing, so I'd like to get a good fit with the front bar. (I know there are a bunch of guys who crush & exclusively use strap (which would be available on the Lynx, as a bonus), but I generally prefer the fit of a wire bail).

Thanks in advance for the input...


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jan 20, 2013
Cleo's Needle

The Lynx is easily the better of the two. Better in both fit and performance. I can't think of a reason I'd ever consider a set of cyborgs.


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By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Jan 20, 2013
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock

BD heels can be a bitch to get fit to Sportiva boots. I actually pulled the heels off my Vasaks and put them on my Cyborg fronts for use with Sportivas.


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By Paul-B
Jan 20, 2013
Flakes of Wrath

Ran across a coldthistle post with some thoughts on Sportiva/BD fit. Scroll a ways down the page, check out the flex of the Cyborgs on Spantiks vs the Petzls.


coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/01/true-love-dane-and-his-boot>>>


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By Dane
Jan 21, 2013
Cham '11

My observations for what they are worth. BD front bales might be an issue (to big) but I use BD heels on every pair of crampons I own. I use the BD heel on crampons from Grivel Petzl and BD. With a Petzl front bale installed on the BDs..Sabers, Serac, Cyborgs and Stingers I've used on almost every recent La Sportiva ice boot made. Only the Spantik has any sort of issue for fit I have seen. As mentioned it is noted in the blog. And lots of folks climbing in BD Cyborgs and Stingers on Spantiks with zero issues.

And have climbed on 3 generations of Batura, the Trango Extremes, Primes, 2 gen of Nepals, the old Ice and the Baruntse. Never had any problem properly fitting a BD crampon to any of them once I changed front bales. Some times depending on the boot I simply leave the BDs in factory form because they are a decent fit.

The Cyborg fit (or any crampon) on a Spantik is tough because there is a piece of soft insulation material under a thin plastic heel shelf piece that can collapse if you add too much torque to the heel lever.

I also use the Lynx on occasion. There I also use the BD heel lever for a better fit and more security than what the Petzl heel piece offers.

Likely worth noting most of the recent Grade 5 ice pictures on the blog are a Petzl Dartwin with a Black diamond heel piece. I still climb in Spantiks on occasion. And I use the same set up. Lynx is pretty close on fit (not quite as good imo) but I still change out the Petzl heel piece to the BD version for that advantage and the added security. And I am very, very careful how tight I crank the heels on my Spantiks.


Petzl Dartwins and a BD heel piece for a better over all boot fit.
Petzl Dartwins and a BD heel piece for a better over all boot fit.




steep ice
steep ice


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By GLD
Jan 21, 2013

Dane,

So I noticed on both my sz 47 Nepals and my friends smaller Nepals (don't know size but he wears 10.5 in US men's) that our stock cyborgs were by the end of the day twisted toward the inside. Is that the issue with the larger BD front bale that's corrected by a Petzl bale?

The first entry on your blog post talks about flipping the bars over to reduce the 'pigeon-toe' which I had but I don't mind so much since my feet naturally turn slightly out. My issue is the pigeon toe progresses and causes more slop.

We though about adjusting in a few ways but in the end the testing ability is a difficult one. Without running several pitches whatever we play with is not recognizable. Simply, putting the crampon onour boots without climbing basically told us nothing other than in some cases a definite no way. We tried for instance moving the rear bail forward and extending the center bar and a few other combinations but never climbed them.


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By AK123
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 21, 2013
North Buttress Mt. Hunter, AK

Thanks to all for the input. Ray--I appreciate it and suspected what you said to be the case, but was a bit skeptical...I've never owned a pair of Petzl crampons, have only read what seem to all be very positive reviews of the Lynx, but do know a bunch of people first hand who have used & recommend Cyborgs. I'm now set on attempting to find a pair of Lynx & order them before they're gone.

Ben--I've actually found my BD heels to work quite well on Sportiva boots. Although I've used Grivel (& consequently Grivel heels), I have always owned BD Crampons, and much prefer their heel pieces. Interesting that you've had problems, as I've always never seen anyone who feels the BD heels aren't top performers. Which Sportiva boots have you experienced issues with when paired with BD heels?

Paul, thank you for the link...Surprisingly hadn't seen that post on CT and those pictures coupled with Dane's input make me feel good about purchasing a pair of Lynx.

Dane, thank you for the time and thorough explanation regarding the Spantik's troublesome characteristics for ideal crampon fit. I've noticed in the past that they've been a pain to fit to most crampons, but wasn't aware of the reason why, so thank you for laying it out; it makes perfect sense. Per your recommendations of swapping the Petzl (Lynx, in this case) heels for a set of BD heels, I'm hoping to take my existing BD heel pieces from my Sabretooths (which I'm weary to use after hearing of all the incidents) & swapping them with the Petzl stock heel pieces.


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By Dane
Jan 21, 2013
Cham '11

Is that the issue with the larger BD front bale that's corrected by a Petzl bale?

for me yes, every time except a with Grivel 22 on my Spantiks. But remember what might work on a 44 may not work at all on a 47....no matter what any one tells you it simply is not true most of the time. These days crampons from most of the makers will fit 41/ 42/43/and may be 45s fairly well. Past that on either side you may well be screwed if you want a perfect crampon fit and full crampon performance.

The first entry on your blog post talks about flipping the bars over to reduce the 'pigeon-toe' which I had but I don't mind so much since my feet naturally turn slightly out.

my memory could obviously be better but I don't think I have ever recommended reversing the bars to change front point angle. I know other have done so to good effect. I haven't on my own gear, ever. Seldom do I recommend something I don't do or haven't done myself. I would change crampons first before reversing the bar...simply because it is an design thing for me. Not because it wouldn't work.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jan 21, 2013
Cleo's Needle

I think the BD vs. Petzl heal lever comparison is over stated. The only real advantage to the BD levers is that the strap is mounted at the top of the lever. While it may be better a correctly adjusted crampon isn't going to come off. As to the fit of the lower heal peice, that will depend on the size of the boot, the same model boot in different sizes will have a different crampon fit regardless of the crampon.

I've flipped the bars on every crampon mentioned in this thread, the soles used by LS and Scarpa are so asymmetrical that that almost none of them get a good fit without being pigeon-toed.


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By Dane
Jan 21, 2013
Cham '11

Ray take a moment and check out the surface area contact at the heel platform between Petzl and BD.

On boots 45 and bigger, especially the Spantik I found it really helped to have the added surface area of the BD heel at contact. Not as likely to squish/collapse the Spantik's sole and I (at least) get a getter fit with the BD heels on my tother boots as well. Easier on and off too with the added security of the upper position on the leash, which is no small thing imo. I used the Grivel heels on my Petzl crampons previous. But didn't like all the plastic parts that involved.

But no question all this minutia is over stated if you have a common boot size and your crampons fit..it actually can happen on occasion.

I see some really bad crampons and even worse crampon fits all the time. No attention to detail by the owners. They seem to be as capable as I or more so of climbing any given piece of ice. But generally with out that attention to the details I don't want them climbing with me.


simu soloing moderate alpine
simu soloing moderate alpine


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By dgregorie
From Chattanooga, TN
Jan 26, 2013
Shagg

I used to think that crampon fit was pretty basic until I started adding to my one boot (Nepal) - one crampon (Cyborg) combo. First I added Sabretooths which do fine on the Nepals and also fit my TLT5's well. The Cyborgs are a perfect fit on the TLT's. Then I added Stingers which don't work at all on the TLT5's but are great on the Nepals. The latest addition, Spantiks, fit ok with the Sabretooths but all the other crampons are pretty terrible which I think is mostly due to the size (46.5). Now I'm wondering whether the Lynx might be able to replace something, maybe two, but not take away anything that is already a good fit. Guess I'll be spending some time at the shop with a pile of boots and crampons.


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