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Kermits Wall and Perhaps Area
Routes Sorted
L to R R to L Alpha
All Chalk And No Action 
Cranial Prophylactic 
Gordon's Direct 
Gordon's Hangover 
Green Adjective, The 
Kermit's Direct Start 
Kermit's Wad 
Lend Me a Dime 
Lime Line Variation 
MA 1 
Meat Puppets 
Orange Crush 
Paranoia Streak 
Perhaps Direct 
Perhaps Not 
Prepositional Phrase 
Revenge of the Nerds 
Smitty's Wet Dream 
Subordinate Claws 
Touch Up 

Perhaps Not 

YDS: 5.11c French: 6c+ Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII- British: E4 6a

Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 110'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.11 French: 6c+ Ewbanks: 23 UIAA: VIII- British: E4 5c [details]
FA: Stuart Ruckman, 1987 (without the bolts)
Page Views: 1,015
Submitted By: David Shiembob on Oct 15, 2007
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You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (8)
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Perhaps Not 5.11c


A cool route to the right of the first pitch of Touch Up. Climb Touch up to the fixed pin, traverse right into the corner. Eventually we reached out for the arete. Staying directly in the corner looked much harder, so I don't think that's what you're supposed to do, anyone know different? Finish on the 2nd pitch of Touch up.


Rap or lower off the top of the 2nd pitch of Touch Up. A 70m will get you all the way down, a 60 comes up short.


Listed as R in the guidebook, doesn't seem to be at all. 2 bolts protect the hard climbing, then whatever you want for the beginning and end of Touch Up.

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By John Steiger
May 24, 2008
rating: 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- E3 5c

Not R-rated in light of the bolts, and doubtful it's 11c if treated as a sport route, i.e., don't get hunkered down in the corner (11a?). On the other hand, not using the bolts would make it harder and very necky. The throwback he is, Allen Sanderson led this sans clipping the bolts some years back.

By Allen Sanderson
From: Oootah
Oct 10, 2008

The R rating came from the climb being done sans bolts on the FA. I can not remember when the bolts were added but IRCC Stuart added them.

By Boissal
From: Small Lake, UT
Oct 24, 2013
rating: 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- E3 5c

I'm still not 100% sure how to get into this one and the Ruckmans' description confuses me. Do you start up the Touch Up flake for a few moves (as in the picture posted on here, even clipping the pin) then run up edges to the bolt? Or do you keep climbing the Gordon's dihedral for a few more move past Touch Up then traverse back to the bolt line using decent edges? Both ways feel about the same difficulty-wise. There are lots of loose edges on both lines, beware of what you yard on before getting in the corner. I'd still call this PG-13, at least coming in from the right. Without the bolts it's R++...