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Peckers Vs. Beaks? / Modifying the tools
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By Jason Kaplan
From Glenwood ,Co
Dec 4, 2008
avitar pic <br />

So what's the deal? since beaks are super hard to find does a #1 pecker work instead? (if not) What if it was modified? (also what would need to be done to make it work like a beak?)

I have access to a pneumatic cut off saw as well as a fixed belt sander(with water lubing/cooling the belt as an option), and I know to keep the temps low. I can make modifications, acutally I made a "beaked" RURP not long ago(just with the pneumatic cut off saw and ice water). It works pretty well.

Also, say I want to put a slight bend in the shaft(Of a pecker, up near the blade most likely)to achieve a light camming action, what is the best way to do this and keep the integrity of the pecker.(hot or cold?) in a vice with a hammer or what?

Also what is your take on making the blades taper/ filing them in certain ways?

What's the best shape/angles and length/width for the blade if you were to make modifications? (or if you were making a beaked RURP)


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Dec 4, 2008
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

Okay, I've heard enough...

Please keep the pecker away from the pneumatic saw, blades, vices, and hammers, and seek professional help from a Board Certified Urologist, and Genitourinary Reconstructive Surgeon who specializes in curvature correction.

Good luck!


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By EMT
Dec 4, 2008
me bouldering in MT

I don't know about this peckers vs.beaks stuff.

But, Packers vs. Bears now that I know and it's Packers all the way!!!!!!


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By Jeremy Cleaveland
From Lake City, CO
Dec 6, 2008

so, Peckers are BD's name for them, and A5 called theirs Bird Beaks - is there any specified difference between peckers and beaks other than what company made them? Of course the minor shape differences would fit different places better, but what is the difference?


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By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Dec 7, 2008
Beagle

I'd say do not modify. I did a route that called for 35 Beaks, we had about 10 Beaks and the rest were BD Peckers. I never saw a crucial difference. In fact I kind of like the Peckers b/c you can clip in closer to the placement instead of using the longer cable clip in. Unless you have specific beta suggesting modified beaks, I wouldn't worry about it. Remember, it's just aid climbing not rocket science! On the other hand...it's always fun to mess with power tools and gear. Enjoy.


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By Jason Kaplan
From Glenwood ,Co
Dec 7, 2008
avitar pic <br />

The first ascentionist said he used some verm seam weasels or something like that, I guess they come to more of a point or are thinner or something. He told me he used them to open up one of the seams and then used the same size pecker once he opened it up. (that is what he was refering to as "filed beaks" I think. I'm not sure but I might modify 1 set(and buy some more regular ones), I'm not sure how much it will help though.

It's funny, as mentioned above The FA told me just substitute "beaks" for peckers as that's mostly what he used and he even thought they worked better then the beaks in most cases.

I have 1 beaked rurp for those extra small placments, Meybe I will make 1 or 2 more as I have 2 fresh rurp's to start cutting.

Maybe another beaked rurp and a star rurp. As mentioned above messing with gear and power tools can be fun.

This route should be fun too, looks like we'll be the second ascentionist assuming we make it up. Virgin nailing for a virgin at nailing.(I've only tapped peckers and the beaked rurp with a rock, never actually used a hammer)


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By Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Dec 7, 2008
The Shield

Use a big pecker and hit harder... put both hands on the hammer if you have to.


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By Jason Kaplan
From Glenwood ,Co
Dec 9, 2008
avitar pic <br />





I couldn't help myself, I figured I was running out of time so now was the time if I was going to do it, started with the rurped beaks and went back for round 2 with the peckers. I feel satisfied that I made the right decision, these will most likely work where nothing else will. Now if we will actually get on the route or not seems to be the new issue, damn time constraints.


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By J. Thompson
From denver, co
Dec 9, 2008
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.

Hmmmm.....why did you sharpen the bottom of those big peckers?

Seems the only advantage will be a greater likelyhood of spearing yourself.


josh


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By John McNamee
Administrator
From Littleton, CO
Dec 9, 2008
Artist Tears P3

Beaks one day, Peckers the next, knifeblades a couple weeks later and before we know it sawn off angles...

I wouldn't get too hung up on this sort of thing unless you are wanting to venture into the realm of C4 and big falls. Create a saved search on ebay and you're be able to pick old aid stuff up pretty easily.


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By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Dec 9, 2008
Beagle

Jason Kaplan wrote:
The first ascentionist said he used some verm seam weasels or something like that

I can't believe I'm about to type this but, here goes... LOL


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By Jason Kaplan
From Glenwood ,Co
Dec 9, 2008
avitar pic <br />

^^^ Dude that's seriously what he said. I dunno what's so funny.

Josh, the reason I sharpened the peckers was for placements of the smaller size might be a little loose but too tight for the next size up. the sharpened #2 pecker would say help open up a loose #1 placement to accept a #2 there after. Just a theory really.

John, I think that I might indeed one day like to venture on to a A4 route/ C4 (if it really exists). So what's wrong with that? As far as I can tell the more tools to AID you the better right? I was actually thinking about cuttin my only mid/large angle down now that you mention it, sounds they are useful on clean desert aid pitches.

Nothin positive to say eh?


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By Caz
Dec 10, 2008

Jason Kaplan wrote:
Virgin nailing for a virgin at nailing.(I've only tapped peckers and the beaked rurp with a rock, never actually used a hammer)




Dude maybe you should leave this alone till you get some more nailing under your belt. You can really ruin a route with bad nailing skills. As far as bringing sawed off pins to on a desert route, leave them and bring hybrids, tricams, and offset nuts. No need for a hammer on sandstone until you really know what your doing (I'm not ready to nail on sands stone).


I'm not trying to be a d!ck, I'm just trying to be honest. you should really put some time into learning how to nail and how to clean pins before you go try a 2nd accent or bring pins on a sand stone route. There are so many new tools out there to go for clean accents that won't damage the route. I admit, I like to break out the hammer and swing it into some iron, but I really think about it before I do.


Just a thought...


Zac


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By Jason Kaplan
From Glenwood ,Co
Dec 10, 2008
avitar pic <br />

No need to worry, were short on time now so were going to do a slot canyon instead of trying to fire a route we planned to take 2 days in 1 instead. I don't think we would have made a mess of it though, I'm pretty conscious about keeping things as clean as possible. as for the sawed off angles, your wrong about that. From my understanding they are indisposeable on hard clean routes with shallow angle scars (like sundevil chimney for instance) I have done a couple of hard clean desert aid routes and yes you are correct about hybrids and offset nuts (brass work the best IMO) I think tricams are next to worthless but then again I hardly ever use them so maybe I just suck at getting creative with them.

Anyway this is all off topic.


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By J. Thompson
From denver, co
Dec 11, 2008
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.

Jason Kaplan wrote:
as for the sawed off angles, your wrong about that. From my understanding they are indisposeable on hard clean routes with shallow angle scars (like sundevil chimney for instance) I have done a couple of hard clean desert aid routes and yes you are correct about hybrids and offset nuts (brass work the best IMO) I think tricams are next to worthless but then again I hardly ever use them so maybe I just suck at getting creative with them. Anyway this is all off topic.



Dude. Seriously.

Telling someone they are wrong...and then justifying it with "from my understanding".
You have alot to learn....and maybe you should be telling folks things based on your experience(which is limited) and not what you read or heard.
Try alittle harder with the tricams....I saw the photos you posted fom artist tears...a number of the placements that you photographed would have been bomber if you used tricams.

Also you should watch this......




josh


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By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 11, 2008
Andrew Gram

You don't need sawed angles for the sundevil. tricams, aliens, and big lowe balls work well in shallow boxed out scars. The only pins i hand place very often are the old pika toucans.

Sharp beaks in sandstone seem like a bad idea since i think they would shear out a lot easier.


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By Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Dec 11, 2008
The Shield

Dude
I think I"d take a step back from the modified realized ultimate reality pitons on Cutler... dido for the sawed angles, for that matter.
Sam


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By Billcoe
Jan 17, 2012

Beagle wrote:
I can't believe I'm about to type this but, here goes... LOL


Want to see my seam Weasel?


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By Billcoe
Jan 17, 2012

Fuck yeah dude, get on it! Grab that shit and work it. Remember that this is highly heat treated and tempered metal. Bending it might break it, maybe you'll have to temper it first. I can't say, but if you work it hot, you will weaken it but can re-temper it. You sound like you already have that figured out. Most likely if you use the guide for tempering 4140 steel you'll get it to work if you do need to temper, but consult a metal shop for that. I don't have it memorized but I've done it (tempered, then bent some heat treated studs to make U bolts, we tempered them, and they got put on one of the tunnel digging machines that drilled the English Channel) and you can can too. Not rocket science:-) Want to see any pics of me on rockets:-) LOL! I can't speak to the route you are specifically asking about, but here's some general info to help you along.

So let me slip my "Seam Weasel" out:-) LOL. Vermin (Forest Gardiner), made great shit. Great. Crack tacks like CMI use to do, his own type of Rurp, and great Hooks. Ed Leeper and John Middendorf made great stuff as well. The Vermin Seam Weasels were ok, but the Vermin hooks are the best out there in their range. Fish use to make a captain hook that was a monster and worked great if you didn't gouge yer eye out when it popped Arrrrg, the Vermin hook was half the weight and as strong. Good shit. This pic will get you the run down of some of that stuff.

It's all pretty much a variation on a theme and the picture will help you to figure it out. For the CrackN Ups, Joe Healy uses them as free pro, I've seen him do it, do a search - he's got that dialed. In the pic below - JH leading the FA he named "The 3rd rail". The first piece is a Crack N Up, @ 40 feet off the deck up there. I don't have the cahones to use them myself, but he's got it working.


Close up of that piece below. He's pretty savvy, and has modified it as you can see. The little wire is to overcome one of the huge issues of these damned things, which is that they act like little boat anchors and catch on all kinds of things. He's got that wire on there to overcome that major issue. He's the only one I've seen do this. The rest of us gave the things us years ago for that reason, and the fact that if you call you'll be pincushion. Google that and you can find of bunch of stuff he's improved for his own useage.



Moses is making Tomahawks that are as good or better as anything out there. In fact, it's the only currently made thing in that pic up there. The rest you'll have to scrounge your buddies gear box for. Very top notch quality goods. They come straight,left and right cants. Like the Toucans. The have a large and a small as well, so that's 6 different versions in total. The metal is stronger than Toucans and you can smack the base to pop them out, so you'll get up the stuff faster as you won't have to wait for your follower to be dicking around forever trashing the stuff.
Lot of those toys sold here: www.shop.vershke.com/category.sc?categoryId=9]]www.shop.vers>>> Simon has Luke Malatistas revised version of the A5 Hurricane drill for sale too, Luke makes good stuff and needs to move that stuff if you need a good drill.

Below you can see the cant (bend) on a Pika Toucan stuffed in a crack on a FA we did. Clearly it is backasswards, but when you use all the other ones, you use what you have and you know what? It's aid climbing, get over it and just use it, right? :-) A lot of them got hand placed till I was ready to wet myself, then I'd hammer. Hard:-) The joy of the beaks is that if you are careful, when you remove them, you will have a tiny nut placement. Or a handplacement for the next beak. Olvesky did that kind of constructive creative scaring on his routes in Zion and they all go clean on nuts and cams now. Worth thinking of those who will follow.



For aid climbing, having a short clip in is a good thing, these toucans you can sometimes clip little biners directly in if they cant away from the rock enough, or what I do now is double up the sling, then you can extend it if you need to because it's an overhang or the route wanders. Pika is out of business, and they made a smaller version called the mallard as well. IMO, the Toucans are worth having as they have a significant cant coupled with the long beak and you can literally often handplace the darned things and they work like a Leeper cam hook. (mmmmm, Cam Hooks - good stuff). Neptunes still had a few left as of last year, but they do come in different cants and sizes. Moses is making the "Leeper" cam hooks now too, that is as good of a clean aid piece for thin cracks as made. As they put a lot of pressure on sandstone, most folks say don't use it for that.

Hope that is some help for you!

Take care all

Bill


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Jan 17, 2012
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

Save yourself all that trouble and get some Moses Tomahawks - best on the market these days


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By Jeremy Aslaksen
From Albuquerque, NM
Jan 27, 2012

I'm confused? You guys think too much.


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