Patagonia Nano-Air in Layering System

Since this is somewhat gear related (well, it's a climbing jacket anyway), I figured this works here. If not, please feel free to move it to the proper forum.

Anyway, I have the option to possibly nab a Patagonia Nano Air on the cheap, but having never used one, I'm not certain how it fits into a layering system. What I have right now is (this is for summer pursuits):

Base
Patagonia R1
MH Hooded Compressor
Hardshell

My assumption is that the Nano-Air replaces the Compressor (albeit with less wind resistance), with the caveat being that the Nano-Air could be left on during activity, whereas the compressor would lead to overheating (since it doesn't breathe...or stretch, as well). Is this correct?

That being said, if I got the Nano-Air, is it then worth also picking up another more belay-style piece just in case, or for winter pursuits in the Northwest or perhaps Colorado. Perhaps something like the Nano-Puff? (I have a Feathered Friends parka as well, but that's for extreme cold).

Sorry for the ramble, bit if anyone has any input on this I would be very appreciative. Thanks!

The Nano Air is most comparable to combining an R2 plus a Pertex Equilibrium windshirt like a Westcomb Crest. It might replace your R1 and possibly allow you to go with something lighter than the Compressor as an extra layer. The warmth of the Nano Air is boosted quite a bit when you stop air flow through it by putting another less wind permeable later on top of it.

The Nano Air pills really badly at any contact points with packs. Expect to see obvious wear after one day of use

The Nano Air is not very water resistant, and bushwhacking through snowy rhododendrons at 20F wasn't fun. I kept warm, but I was absolutely soaked.

Don't believe all the hype about "leaving it on." Hiking uphill at 25F and 2000 feet an hour in a Capilene 4 and Nano Air, I was dripping sweat. Sure, it's better than a Primaloft One piece, but it isn't magic

Right on. So would you recommend the Nano-Air as an essential piece of kit at all then? Does it really offer that many advantages over a more standard layering system? I have read in places that the Nano Air + Shell combo works extremely well as an insulating layer when just standing around.

My other thought was to perhaps pick up a Nano Puff as an insurance puffy layer (above the compressor), on really cold/winter (but not Arctic or Antarctic cold) climbs.

Andrew Bisharat throws a Houdini on top of the nano air for wind and moderate precip protection. I think I'm getting an arc alpha fl and I'll probably wear the nano with that and a light or mid base layer all the way until late November. The nano is as warm as a nano puff or any other midweight synthetic piece but it's the wind resistance that can make you cold. So all you really need is something thin to stop the wind and you will be all set warmth wise. I run warm so I don't plan on getting a wind shirt because I'll be OK until it's time to put the gore tex on, but if you want a simple solution, a houdini or equivalent is the way to go.

No, it's not essential. It's super comfortable. It simplifies things. A fleece plus windshirt will be very similar, performance wise, and maybe a bit more versatile. I like the Nano Air. It's not worth its retail price to me. In my opinion, if you're going to use a hardshell, a superior system would be the traditional base-fleece-hardshell. The hardshell makes the Nano Air function just like any other insulation layer.

FWIW, I'm a fan of the Capilene 4 Pro top. I've been happy wearing that with an unzipped hardshell down to around freezing as long as I'm moving. Zip the shell when i start getting cold or wet or going slower. Puffy in the pack to pull out when sitting still. I tried going light on the puffy, but this past year I decided that I was sick of being cold in order to save 4 or 8 ounces and a little pack space. So I got an Atom AR that makes me happy. The new Nuclei AR that's coming in the fall looks pretty sexy.

I think the Nano Air is perhaps more of a winter or maybe high-altitude summer piece, something that you would frequently be wearing while moving continually. For a lot of summer climbing, wearing a Nano while moving is going to be too warm, and then when you stop you might have to cover it up with a windshell.

At least for my purposes, I think a primaloft summer piece---the Rab Xenon X (see outdoorgearlab.com/Insulate…) is a better idea. Put it on when you aren't moving, take it off when you are moving, and you get more warmth and wind resistance.

I didn't need one. But I bought it anyways and its become
My favorite jacket just cause it's so Damned comfortable.

Jon Frisby wrote:Andrew Bisharat throws a Houdini on top of the nano air for wind and moderate precip protection.

Andrew Bisharat is not exactly known for alpine climbing... Weird.

Anyhow, the jacket is way too warm for summer climbing or spring climbing for that matter. It is an ideal piece for climbing or ski touring on very cold dry days. I think whatever Patagonia uses for insulation is way warmer and not as breathable as Polartec Alpha. My partner has a similar piece by Rab and he wears it over R1 + baselayer and feels fine, while I'm dying sweating in the Nano Air just on top of the baselayer...

I agree that the nano air isn't worth anything near retail (sub 200 is where it's worth considering) and that for regular summer climbing, not a great piece. I was assuming you meant summer alpine, which is one area where the NA is good. But for low altitude climbing, you will be way too hot, even with the breathability

Yeah, I should have clarified that I meant for alpine pursuits.

Thanks for all of the info gang!

doligo wrote: Anyhow, the jacket is way too warm for summer climbing or spring climbing for that matter. It is an ideal piece for climbing or ski touring on very cold dry days....

I disagree, I could see this with a nano puff but I think the air is the perfect layer for any cool weather activity, as long as you don't have an R1 underneath it. IMO, this is a near-perfect layer, and if you like climbing or skiing in the mountains then you should probably consider buying one. I do lots of cool-weather spring, summer, and fall climbing in the jacket and love it. Everybody's internal temperature regulation is different though I guess.

I Just returned the Nano-Air after sifting through several posts regarding synthetic insulation breakdown, and doing my own stationary tests with five other insulation items in/near Boston on a 41 degree F night with light rain & 90+% humidity, very light wind.  I sat outside for about 5 minutes each, in a Red Ram Merino T base-layer and the following jackets (hood removed if available). The first was the Nano-Air Hoody (new insulation,14oz,$99), 2nd- Mountain Hardware Monkey Man Pullover 1/4 zip (2010,13oz,$95), 3rd- Alpaca XXL Sweater (2014,15oz,$30) 4th- Montbell U.L. Thermawrap (2007,9oz,$130), 5th- Rab Xenon w/Primaloft 1 (2012,12oz,$150). The results in perceived warmth to me was that the Nano-Air was the coldest, I was shivering at the end of the the 5 min. The order of  donning afterwards was Monkey Man,Alpaca,Thermawrap, & Xenon. The order of warmest to coldest were the Monkey Man, Rab Xenon,Alpaca,Thermawrap,and Nano air.  I obtained my heat shedding capability conclusions the following night without having to beat up the jacket... I went to LL Bean to use a gift card and walked around the store (65+F) for about 30 to 45 minutes wherein I was getting that Tongue out of the mouth feeling. When I was about to make my purchase I realized that I'd forgotten the card in the car. The cashier told they me they were about to close, so ran outside & swapped the Nano-air for my Alpaca sweater (got the card) and hustled inside just before they locked both doors. After some heavy breathing, I realized while checking out that the Alpaca easily wins for breathability, price, longevity and simplicity. I am looking forward to cool weather to wear base, alpaca, and my do everything Arc Squamish 2014 (~50CFM...vs. 40CFM of Nano-air), in order to finalize my decision. Update 30AUG2017 *Note  bought a Celitas design alpaca vest on amazon for $14 this will yeild an 8oz. low price layering option...looking forward to testing.

Had a nano air hoody, didn't use it much. Too warm to wear during significant exertion in the winter (skiing uphill). Bought a nano air light hoody this fall, and it's become my favorite piece of clothing ever. Very comforable during high-exertion activities from around 40F to near zero (with just midweight capilene underneath). The breathability is amazing. If it's very windy I've been wearing a BD alpine start hoody over the nano air light and this system has worked brilliantly for something like 70 days of backcountry skiing in Vermont, Colorado, and Canada, and a few days of ice climbing in New England.