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Partially torn webbing on C4
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By Evan Sanders
From Westminster, CO
Oct 14, 2011
Flaming Pumpkin
Eric Fjellanger wrote:
No it doesn't, it looks like a gold neutrino. Sounds like spray! I would tie on some 9/16ths webbing to back it up and go with that until you can send it in. It is confusing to me also how it would have torn. Honestly if I found this had happened in the middle of a multipitch climb, I would have continued on using the cam without thinking about it too hard. Even with the tear it should be pretty strong.


Gold neutrino is right. Bought the gold neutrino at the same time as the C4. This happened on a single pitch climb, so i didn't have to worry about using it again, but given the situation of a multipitch climb I'm not sure what I would have done. That's the kind of response I was trying to get (minus the whole what i should do with it until i send it in part)

Ryan: (I'd quote your post but i can't figure out how to do that after already quoting someone else). I was going to guess about 6-7 kN static load, maybe in a fall 4-5. I'm going to try and pull test the webbing sometime next week to find out for sure (static load at least), hopefully I'll come back with some info. The same could also be applied for quickdraws (thanks for the link Matt), and since I have a couple old quickdraws I haven't used since when i started climbing I might cut them partway and test the webbing.

Here's a relevant question to the thread (just trying to get people thinking, aka TROLLING): I know some people climb above cams only rated for aid. So at what rated force do you feel comfortable climbing above?

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Oct 14, 2011
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Evan Sanders wrote:
*sigh* Okay, but what about the answer to the question I asked? I've known since i first started trad climbing about these quick fixes, I was hoping to get more thought out responses about a hypothetical situation than the typical response you give a newbie climber.


That link that divnamite posted is your best answer and most definitive source of info. In case you didn't look at it, which it appears you didn't here's the breakdown:

Notice the factory sling is doubled up; this is for a good reason. On single webbing or dyneema, the thumb loop cable will end up with a permanent bent angle in the event of a decent fall. They did tests on it with various types of slings, and the only one that was able to allow the thumb loop to maintain its curvature, and thus its strength, was the doubled one. This is not to say that webbing won't hold; if you tie a nice tight water knot, it will. It might also permanently kink your thumb loop if you fall on it. Now, compared to a biner, webbing is soft, so imagine what a biner would do to the thumb loop. They also point out that when the thumb loop is kinked or bent, strength was compromised up to 4kn in tests. You could do any of the suggested things, but if it's me, I'm spending a few bucks and sending it back to BD to get it re-slung.

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By Evan Sanders
From Westminster, CO
Oct 14, 2011
Flaming Pumpkin
muttonface wrote:
That link that divnamite posted is your best answer and most definitive source of info. In case you didn't look at it, which it appears you didn't here's the breakdown: Notice the factory sling is doubled up; this is for a good reason. On single webbing or dyneema, the thumb loop cable will end up with a permanent bent angle in the event of a decent fall. They did tests on it with various types of slings, and the only one that was able to allow the thumb loop to maintain its curvature, and thus its strength, was the doubled one. This is not to say that webbing won't hold; if you tie a nice tight water knot, it will. It might also permanently kink your thumb loop if you fall on it. Now, compared to a biner, webbing is soft, so imagine what a biner would do to the thumb loop. They also point out that when the thumb loop is kinked or bent, strength was compromised up to 4kn in tests. You could do any of the suggested things, but if it's me, I'm spending a few bucks and sending it back to BD to get it re-slung.


I've read it before i posted this thread. It was relevant to the answers about quick fixes, but since those weren't the answers I cared about the link isn't relevant either. Not to take away from the usefulness of the link: it is good information. It appears you didn't read my posts either.

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By Yarp
Oct 14, 2011
Those of you recommending that he tie his own sling on a C4 are retarded and yer gonna die. It's been common knowledge for quite some time now that the reason for the funky sling on a C4 is that the thumb loop pinches down on the sling during a fall and was found, slice through a single layer of webbing about as easily as Ron Jeremy plows through a 17 year old from Missouri 6 months after she gets off the bus in LA.

Figure it out Evan. I know that you aren't really this stupid but you are obviously attention starved and find it fun to troll MP with questions you all ready know the answer too. If you are just looking for conversation about the sling then just ask but cut the bullshit back and forth about whether or not you were actually going to use it. You are transparent to all but yourself and the editing that you've done to this thread is truly embarrassing.

Just clip the thumb loop and stop being a dumbass.

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By Evan Sanders
From Westminster, CO
Oct 14, 2011
Flaming Pumpkin
Yarp wrote:
Those of you recommending that he tie his own sling on a C4 are retarded and yer gonna die. It's been common knowledge for quite some time now that the reason for the funky sling on a C4 is that the thumb loop pinches down on the sling during a fall and was found, slice through a single layer of webbing about as easily as Ron Jeremy plows through a 17 year old from Missouri 6 months after she gets off the bus in LA. Figure it out Evan. I know that you aren't really this stupid but you are obviously attention starved and find it fun to troll MP with questions you all ready know the answer too. If you are just looking for conversation about the sling then just ask but cut the bullshit back and forth about whether or not you were actually going to use it. You are transparent to all but yourself and the editing that you've done to this thread is truly embarrassing. Just clip the thumb loop and stop being a dumbass.


Touche to the second paragraph. Attention starved? Probably not, I just like learning what other people think about different situations. But you're probably right, I should have just asked and not beat around the bush.

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Oct 14, 2011
Middle

The Hedgehog says:
The Hedgehog says:

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Oct 14, 2011
Middle
muttonface wrote:
A fall on a biner clipped directly into the thumb loop has high probability of snapping the thumb loop in a fall given the test results of what webbing did to it.


Snapping the thumb loop? Seriously?

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Oct 14, 2011
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Snapping the thumb loop? Seriously?


If spectra did this to it in a fall:

spectra on C4 thumb loop test
spectra on C4 thumb loop test



and it looks like to me the spectra broke as a result, then yes. I'm inclined to think that a biner would have the potential to break it because the loop is going to go before the biner.

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By divnamite
From New York, NY
Oct 14, 2011
Evan, I think your best bet is stop using the cam. If you are need it desperately, then clip a biner directly into the loop (read the detail below). The question you are asking here is almost impossible to answer since no one can say for certain what that particular piece of webbing will fail at. Whatever numbers people give you here are purely guesses at best, and I don't see why there is any reason you would take that risk.

Clipping into thumb loop is a temporary solution, not something you should do consistently. Again from the BD website.

BD crew
17 Nov 2010, 9:35AM

@ Chris ó As noted in the instructions that come with every Camalot: "Clip the unit into the rope using a carabiner attached to the end of the sling or wire loop. Clipping directly into the wire loop with a carabiner can reduce the strength of the unit by up to 2 kN (450 lbf)."

Also from the instructions: "Your Camalotís wire loop can be damaged or deformed in a very hard fall. Inspect the cable for fraying and retire if damaged." Which is more likely if you were clipped directly into the wire loop.

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Oct 14, 2011
Middle
muttonface wrote:
If spectra did this to it in a fall: and it looks like to me the spectra broke as a result, then yes. I'm inclined to think that a biner would have the potential to break it because the loop is going to go before the biner.


Spectra didn't do that in a fall, its from a pull test. The exposed cable cut the spectra. Nothing about that indicates that a carabiner would "snap the loop". The warning BD gives are from lab testing ratings, try generating those numbers with a real life fall (even a big one) and get back to me.

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By Brian Abram
From Columbia, SC
Oct 16, 2011
Brian Abram, leading pitch 2 of Dinkus Dog on the ...
Eric Fjellanger wrote:
No it doesn't, it looks like a gold neutrino. Sounds like spray! I would tie on some 9/16ths webbing to back it up and go with that until you can send it in. It is confusing to me also how it would have torn. Honestly if I found this had happened in the middle of a multipitch climb, I would have continued on using the cam without thinking about it too hard. Even with the tear it should be pretty strong.

FLAG
By alleyehave
From San Diego, CA
Oct 16, 2011
Start of Pitch 3
Evan Sanders wrote:
Yeah, I know not to climb on it. I mean i've said at least twice this was just a curiosity question wondering if anyone would do it, so I'm not really sure why people are taking this seriously. I also said I know to clip the thumb loop, but was just curious about what people thought. It was kind of a time waster question. This was more a question wondering if it was actually attempted


No dude, its blatantly fucking obvious that you were completely clueless and now you're back pedaling. Your original post says it all:




"but this weekend I'm going out to NC to Linville and as of right now that's my only #2 (sent in my other cam in that size to get reslung too!).

So my question is, is it still okay as just an anchor piece, where it (probably) won't take a dynamic load, or is a 1/4 of the way torn through webbing unsafe for an anchor?
" - Evan Sanders



All the editing in the world won't remove the obvious
Say thank you for the common sense advice you were incapable of rendering yourself, and end this stupid thread, immediately.

PS: Sell your gear, preferably to me at a discounted price, you'll be doing yourself a favor!

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