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Oregonian in need of some climbing friends in SLC!!

Original Post
Cade Floyd · · Dublin, IE · Joined May 2015 · Points: 65

Hey guys!! I'm out here in SLC (technically Sandy) on a travel assignment. Itching to make some new friends and get some climbing in! I have a membership with Momentum, and have been pretty much just stuck to bouldering since i don't know anyone here yet. Id love to get outside to climb, but i also would not be opposed to some indoor climbs. Wanting to work on lead climbing this summer at some point, and eventually work over to trad.

So, anyone want to befriend an Oregonian?

much love!

B Jolley · · Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 172

Me and my friends are climbing outside this weekend somewhere in the cottonwoods, your welcome to join.

I have a membership to Momentum as well, mostly climb at Millcreek gym. Feel free to PM me if you want to meet up.

Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70

Oregonian here. They'll only befriend us if we keep quiet about the quality of their beer.

FYI I'll be at City of Rocks if you can get away for a couple days.

Cade Floyd · · Dublin, IE · Joined May 2015 · Points: 65

Hey Ball. thanks for the invite! i wont be able to make it up that way anytime soon. but i will keep it in mind. are you just out there for a short time? if not i will try to make a trip to that area in a couple weeks.

As for the beers. definitely not as large of a selection out here. But i have ran across some micro brews that are pretty good! There is a bar in downtown that has a pretty large selection.

Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70

IIRC (I'm sure if I'm wrong I'll be corrected), even draft in Utah is near-beer. You can buy real beer in bottles at bars (opened) and at the state-run monopoly at 2-3x OR prices.

That's the main reason I stick to Eagle Rare when in Utah :-\

I can climb in the Wasatch if I can find a place for the van. If I don't find any takers for City I'm probably just going to drive back to beer-country.

B Jolley · · Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 172

Epic Brewery sells cold, high-point beer 7 days a week! If you haven't checked it out, do it. 825 S State St SLC.

Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70

Looks cool, I'll check them out.

ton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 0
Super Fluke wrote:Epic Brewery sells cold, high-point beer 7 days a week! If you haven't checked it out, do it. 825 S State St SLC.
Squatters downtown does the same.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ball wrote:IIRC (I'm sure if I'm wrong I'll be corrected), even draft in Utah is near-beer. You can buy real beer in bottles at bars (opened) and at the state-run monopoly at 2-3x OR prices. That's the main reason I stick to Eagle Rare when in Utah :-\ I can climb in the Wasatch if I can find a place for the van. If I don't find any takers for City I'm probably just going to drive back to beer-country.
A few comments since there are some common misconceptions in the statements above.

Most people don't realize that in Utah the alcohol content of beer is measured by weight. In the rest of the country it's done by volume. So when folks hear "3.2%" they compare that to nominal 5% by volume of Bud and think it's very weak and "watered down". They think of "near beer".

Facts:
3.2% by weight = 4% by volume
Guinness on tap in Ireland is 3.3% by weight
If you want the same amount of alcohol that you get in 12oz of PBR (which is about 5.1% by vol)from elsewhere in a Utah beer, you would need to consume an extra 0.85 oz of the Utah beer - a few drops more than half a shot.
In Colorado for example, beer sold in locations other than a liquor store must be no more than 3.2% alcohol by volume, not weight like in Utah. IOW, Colorado convenience store beer has significantly less alcohol than Utah beer and is indeed "near beer".

But then again, if you're drinking beer just for the alcohol, you're kinda missing the point. If you're drinking Bud/Miller/PBR, it's obvious you don't like beer.

Regarding prices, remember that nationwide, beer, wine, and spirits have distinctly different tax structures and mark-ups. In Utah, spirits and liquor have a mandated 86% mark-up over producer wholesale prices. It's much less for beer and wine. In the non-control states there is a mandated three tier distribution system, where the producer sells to a distributor who sells to a retailer who sells to a consumer. This was a requirement of the 21st amendment ending prohibition. There is a mark-up at each one of those steps which typically results in - guess what - about a 65%-90% markup over wholesale. Wines OTOH are often cheaper by a few dollars than the price quoted in Wine Spectator.

I don't know about Oregon beer prices, but as an example, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is about same price in UT as it is in CA.

There are 17 control states (plus Montgomery County, MD (aka, Washington DC)). Comparing prices between open and control states is much like apples and oranges - it depends on the states and the retailers.

The big thing people from elsewhere forget about beer is the shipping cost of all that glass and water. That affects the price far more than the Utah ABC laws.

Cade wrote:
"As for the beers. definitely not as large of a selection out here. But i have ran across some micro brews that are pretty good!"
+1
It takes far more skill to make a good, flavorful, balanced beer at 4% ABV than it does for a high gravity 8% hop bomb.

The Bayou (645 South State Street SLC) has around 300 beers available.
utahbayou.com/utah-beers

Can things be better? Sure - without a doubt. I'll be the first to champion softening our laws and also first to admit that we do indeed have many confusing and arbitrary regulations (eg: the number of different kinds of licenses). If people think it's restrictive now, they would have been shocked what things were like pre-Olympics when I moved here in 2000. Of course I moved from a state where selling beer for off-premise consumption was illegal after 8pm. Grocery stores had a lockable canvas cover or cage or something that they pulled over the beer shelf at 8pm. That was Connecticut. I was also used to a ski state where when I started skiing, it was illegal to have more than one alcoholic beverage in front of you at a time, so things like a shot and a beer weren't available. If you had a beer and ordered a shot, the bartender would take away your beer and keep it behind the bar until you finished your shot. That was Vermont. Fortunately that restriction was eliminated sometime in the mid/late 90's. Until 1998 you could not take home a partially consumed bottle of wine from a restaurant in Maine. When you think about it, that could actually encourage DUI. The point is, there are equally whacked restrictions in other states. Yes, we probably do have more of them, but many affect the bar and restaurant owners far more than the customer.
Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70

Not to start a flame war, but:

• Guiness is weak sauce. Like cask beer, it's meant to be consumed in relatively larger quantities without getting wasted. Using PBR as an example is similarly laughable. As cheap beers go, PBR isn't bad IMO, not least of which it's actually made of malt unlike other canned varieties of witch piss.

More importantly, reformulating any alcoholic beverage changes the flavor for whatever reason. PBR in Utah is foul.

• Yes, you will find 3.2 at gas stations as you're driving through Colorado, but unlike Utah any retail store can sell beer or spirits. Colorado is infinitely cooler than Utah. Also in Colorado you can sell your own draft instead of having to bottle it which is utterly retarded except in the eyes of the teetotaling tax collecting apparatchik.

• I don't know the official Utah regulations on mark-ups, but what I do know is beer is ridiculously marked up to 2x the price while I could still get a 5th of Eagle Rare for $45. That anecdotal evidence seems to fly in the face of your "much less" comment. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like an explanation as to why that is.

• CA alcohol prices are higher than OR last I checked (fucking Oregon legislators want to tax the hell out of the only growing industry in OR). I refuse to drink SN drink pale ale through so I have no idea about that beer specifically.

• The shipping cost of beer to AZ or SE ID would be the same as SLC. It's still a hell of a lot spendier in Utah.

"Until 1998 you could not take home a partially consumed bottle of wine from a restaurant in Maine" *still illegal in Utah

"The point is, there are equally whacked restrictions in other states" not most, and Utah is the worst by far.

Anyway, I checked my "misconceptions" and it turns out I'm still right: if you want to sell your own brew it can't be draft unless it's 3.2. Incredibly, you have to bottle it then open it for the customer. I'm not trying to piss on your state but there it is. Good luck getting things changed around here (at least I'm not bringing up your Constitution-violating state highway patrolmen).

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ball wrote:Not to start a flame war, but: • Guiness is weak sauce.
Many of the misguided incorrectly believe that Guiness is this ultra strong high alcohol beer, hence it's use as an example. Brand preferences have nothing to do with the conversation.

Ball wrote:More importantly, reformulating any alcoholic beverage changes the flavor for whatever reason.
Thus the need for someone who is really good at brewing technology.

Ball wrote:Yes, you will find 3.2 at gas stations as you're driving through Colorado, but unlike Utah any retail store can sell beer or spirits.
Not quite.
denver.cbslocal.com/2015/05…

9news.com/story/news/local/…

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/enforcement/liquor-enforcement-laws-rules-regulations

Ball wrote:I don't know the official Utah regulations on mark-ups, but what I do know is beer is ridiculously marked up to 2x the price while I could still get a 5th of Eagle Rare for $45. That anecdotal evidence seems to fly in the face of your "much less" comment. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like an explanation as to why that is.
Depends on the location of the brewery/distributor and the distributor mark up.
But to say that universally it's a 2x markup is incorrect.

Ball wrote:The shipping cost of beer to AZ or SE ID would be the same as SLC. It's still a hell of a lot spendier in Utah.
Distributor mark-up.

Ball wrote:"Until 1998 you could not take home a partially consumed bottle of wine from a restaurant in Maine" *still illegal in Utah
As of 2001, absolutely not true. What you cannot do is take home an *open* bottle - as in many other states, it needs to be recorked. Obviously the rules haven't caught up with screw caps on fine wine.

Ball wrote:"The point is, there are equally whacked restrictions in other states" not most, and Utah is the worst by far.
There are 16 other control states for starters - where the state controls all distribution and sales. Yes, Utah is certainly one of the worst, but at least we don't have dry counties and towns. (One of the more famous examples: you cannot get a shot of Jack Daniels at the distillery - they are located in a dry county in Tennessee.) BTW, control states are not necessarily bad. Using your example of Eagle Rare: in New Hampshire - another of the control states - that 750ml $45 bottle would be around $25. Due to their reliance on tourism dollars, NH does not have a sales tax.
ton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 0

Marc, hush. I'll happily allow all the stereotypes and ignorance to keep people from moving here. ;-)

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
ton wrote:Marc, hush. I'll happily allow all the stereotypes and ignorance to keep people from moving here. ;-)
Oh. Keep the secret! Got it!
Sorry!
Cade Floyd · · Dublin, IE · Joined May 2015 · Points: 65

"The Bayou (645 South State Street SLC) has around 300 beers available.
utahbayou.com/utah-beers"

hey thanks for the tip! Ill be sure to check them out!! the Beer Hive has been the only place where i have found a really large selection so far. i liked a lot of what they had. Its pretty cool to see that there are micro brews in the area. Ive been to the one in Moab (Moab Brewery) twice so far.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Cade Floyd wrote:"The Bayou (645 South State Street SLC) has around 300 beers available. utahbayou.com/utah-beers" hey thanks for the tip! Ill be sure to check them out!! the Beer Hive has been the only place where i have found a really large selection so far. i liked a lot of what they had. Its pretty cool to see that there are micro brews in the area. Ive been to the one in Moab (Moab Brewery) twice so far.
Mentioned up thread a bit - make sure you visit Epic Brewing. They've been getting all sorts of awards for some time now.

The Porcupine Grill (3698 Fort Union Blvd, Salt Lake City, UT 84121 - a couple hundred yards from the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon) has 25 beers on tap. Alas, as you noted, no more than 4% ABV, but good micros. Decent food, too.
porcupinepub.com/
Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70
Marc801 wrote: Thus the need for someone who is really good at brewing technology.
I could not disagree more. I only want good beer. If I can't buy that in Utah, the only need here is to shop/work elsewhere.

Furthermore, if a major distributor like the Pabst Brewing Co. can't be bothered to develop brewing technology to make better 3.2, then who would? The teetotaling Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control?

This isn't like asking motor companies to develop better technology because they can't make cars that pollute less. Alcohol in beer is a problem that didn't need to be solved in the first place. Ridiculous statement.

Colorado alcohol laws:

alcohollaws.org/coloradoalc…

Depends on the location of the brewery/distributor and the distributor mark up.
But to say that universally it's a 2x markup is incorrect...Distributor mark-up.

So you're blaming more expensive beer just across the Utah border due to "distributor mark-up." So distributors have singled out Utah for NO REASON WHATSOEVER!

Bullshit, dude. Trying to blame distributors flies in the face of economics. They want to sell beer, and they want to sell more beer than their competitors. I don't know the exact technical reason why beer is so fucking expensive in Utah, but you can't blame distributors. Next you'll be blaming the California price of gas on the oil companies.

Marc801 wrote:As of 2001, absolutely not true. What you cannot do is take home an *open* bottle - as in many other states, it needs to be recorked. Obviously the rules haven't caught up with screw caps on fine wine.
You're not even allowed to have the cork.

Marc801 wrote:There are 16 other control states for starters blah blah blah
Utah is the worst, and by a fair margin. Worst prices, worst hassle, and most ludicrous (South Carolina used to have you beat due to their pre-2006 minibottle policy). Your Jack example is silly. Your NH example is somewhat false. True, it is cheaper, but not $25. I was there ~8 years ago and higher shelf bourbon costs roughly $40. An outlet specialty store may get that down to $30 unless it's on sale. About the pre-tax price I'd pay in Vegas.

The mark up on beer in the Utah monopoly store is way higher. I don't know WHY this is, but it's a rip-off compared to any state west of the rockies.
Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70

I'm not even bringing up the ban on having you own kegerator like it's a meth lab or something.

utahkegruns.blogspot.com/20…

Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541

Will you beaters STFU already, this was about finding partners, not your personal debate club.
Marc, there just isn't any way to argue against the fact that the liquor laws in UT are some of the worst in the country. Also, the Bayou sucks and Epic is 80% marketing hype.
Ball, we fucking get it, boozing is easier in CO or OR and UT sucks balls. Great, one less person to crowd the local choss.

Cade, shoot me a PM, I may be able to get out Sunday.

Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70
Boissal wrote:Great, one less person to crowd the local choss.
Hey, that's my line (mainly due to the climbing in Oregon which I'll rag on 100x worse than silly UT laws)

Cade: If you're going to be in OR after your assignment gimmie a PM.
Cade Floyd · · Dublin, IE · Joined May 2015 · Points: 65

guys.....for the record to all of you...... I did not make this post to slam any group of people. in jest or not. i flagged anything i deemed inappropriate, and i refuse to climb with anyone who argue and act like a child.

i will say this only once. if you want to climb...... hit me up....if you want to talk about something other than climbing on this thread. please make a separate thread.

thank you for all the offers from anyone that has asked me to climb. I really appreciate the community out here in SLC who have extended offers to me so far. You guys are great.

Cade Floyd · · Dublin, IE · Joined May 2015 · Points: 65

guys. im serious. i like beer. but if you want to argue about brew. please make a separate thread for this.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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