Opening a gym

Hey folks, I am new to this site but thought Id bounce some ideas off the gurus so that my family a co-workers can have a break.
Just to provide a quick background, I separated from the military and immediately entered college simply because it's what I was always told was needed to be successful. Earned a BA and masters in architecture only to land a desk job with, quite honestly, a disappointing salary. Sitting at a desk 40+ hours a week is about as bad as it gets for an adrenaline junkie that was kept back in 1st grade because he couldn't stay in his seat.
I found climbing a year ago and loved it from the start but the closest gym is 1+ hour away. I live in Plymouth MA and have recently been researching if my area could support a gym and what it would take to get this pipe dream off the ground. I have yet to get to the point were I am ready to make decisions on bouldering/ or mixed use, exact location, size ect. I plan on working at the nearest gym for a few months minimum as a way to research the business while I continue research on demographics, develop a business plan, and try to formulate a plan for funding. Ideally I would start small with room to expand and if things took off I would also open a seasonal outdoor gym down the cape. Cape Cod is swarmed every summer by affluent tourists but is borderline a ghost town when the weather gets cold for those of you that are not familiar. The gym would also develop guided climbing tours to popular areas in bordering states when the weather allowed it. Which brings me to a few of my questions that hopefully a few of you should share some wisdom. I would also welcome any input on the current ideas that have been arrived at.

How should I approach the gym I would be doing research at? I dont want to lie but realize that I could be asking for trouble if when asked why I'm tracking ages, busy times, memberships vs walk-ins, ect if I say I'm planning on opening a gym and taking your south/east MA customers.

What are some of the most important questions I'll need to have answered before approaching a lender or the SBA?

Besides having many more options to leasable spaces, what are the advantages of a strictly bouldering gym? Disadvantages?

What are my biggest obstacles that some overlook? IE funding and finding a location seem like obvious answers?

What are some clever marketing strategies others have used to get people in the door? Post at local globo-gyms?

What other jobs would work in my favor to gain the experience I would need to be successful? (working at gym wont pay the bills but the research and environment will prove valuable. If I can get more of this at a second job rather than simply bartending I am open to suggestions)

Any other wisdom or suggestions is welcome. Thanks!

Familiar with the CWA? As an industry group they look to have some useful info and resources. Seem pretty legit considering some of their partnerships.

As to alternate employment that may better suite you and provide some of the demographics and exposure to bunch of business plans, have you thought about some of the wall builders? If you can deal with the travel it may be an option, I'd imagine it has to pay better. I'd think that your architectural background could prove useful.

Before you get all your questions answered, go work at a gym for a few months. I think that would be more enlightening than anything. You'd understand the business a lot better.

Edit: You don't have to tell them your future plans, and you don't have to lie about it. Just go in there with the idea of learning about the business.

Drive a couple hours and then talk to a couple gym owners abut opening one up. You won't be seen as a competitor and they will probably open up to you much easier. Do NOT do this because you have just fallen in love with climbing - do this because it's a good business decision or not at all.

I think if you are to open a gym, you have to break about the industry with yourself. The Indoor Climbing gym industry is booming, and in Massachusetts you will have to compete with Brooklyn Boulders, Metrorock, the Boston Rock Gym, and Central rock Gym, which has a bajillion locations. All these gyms are hugely funded, with professional setters, textured walls, new holds cycling through frequently, and the money to spend on anything they want.

I work at a small, locally owned climbing gym in Dover, New Hampshire, and have some good perspective on what it's like to compete against the corporate beasts that are Evo and Metrorock. Textured walls are expensive, and so are new holds every few months. Major climbing companies are very difficult to order from when you have a small client base. Facilities can be difficult to maintain.

Here's a few things that make my gym worth going to, and maybe it'll give you some decent insight. First and foremost, a feeling of community. Discouraging climbing with headphones in is a small, but effective way to start with that, as it keeps people talking and it keeps situational awareness abound. Community is so essential in a climbing gym, it keeps the ambiance and vibe positive.

After that, I think complex routes are essential. Unlike most gyms in the area, a very large portion of our climbers climb outside often - and we attempt to keep that in mind when crafting our routes and problems. While many climbers from other gyms call them sandbagged, they are simply more complex than something you'd find from setters and gyms that cater to the party or the yuppie crowd.

With all that said, I believe small gyms are a vastly better resource in the climbing community than large, money-driven establishments. I hope you're successful.

Thanks for all the input so far. Keep it coming.

-thanks jacob, I will definitely look into the CWA and see what they have to offer.

-Frank, the only reason I think it may appear strange is I plan to be doing research that no normal employee would be. It's sure to raise questions.

-Thats a great idea Chris and I will certainly do just that.

-Thanks Caeden, I should drop by your gym to get a better feel of what you describe. The idea about headphones is a good one. As for competing with larger gyms, I'd like to think convenience plays a huge role in membership if the facility is any good. I drive to New bedford, which is not the best area and the facilities is probably a step below what they offer in the city, simply because it means I don't have to battle the boston traffic. a gym in the plymouth area may have the same a appeal to much of the south shore.

Duncan B wrote:Frank, the only reason I think it may appear strange is I plan to be doing research that no normal employee would be. It's sure to raise questions.

The gym is probably already tracking those things, and may be willing to share the info if you are up front about it. I work in the industry and we commonly call each other to share info for benchmarking, best practices research, etc. If the gym is not already tracking, offer to start collecting and organizing the data for them, they may appreciate it.

I'd be interested in hearing about people's experiences w SBA loans.

The only person I know who started the process just gave up and put a second mortgage on his house instead.

I don't go to gyms much, I have a local one I use but the 60/mo for some bouldering, lead climbing and TRs sort of left me cold so I let my membership lapse and now I go when its raining. I have been to some bouldering only places, they leave me even more uninterested.

Than I went to Sender One in Santa Anna CA. The cost is like 90/mo membership... If it wasn't a 1.5 hour drive for me I would join in a second...

The Textured walls are killer...
Many Many long leads at all grades.
The holds are not slick greasy discolored things but textured. ( do they wash those off? )
Having the KIDS GYM-- way off in another room is a big plus.
Miles of bouldering... at all angles, again, no greasy slick holds and no crammed together with tape all over them holds.
Add in some sort of super AC/ filtering system to keep it cool and chalk dust free.
They have a large work out room, with several aerobic systems, 3 sets of free weights and a large cage with pulley workouts and campus boards.
Add in 3-4 scheduled Yoga Classes a day
Trainers to help you with workouts, climbing etc.

To me this is a bargain and is the sort of GYM I would join and support. So I guess all I am trying to say is this... Go Big, or don't go at all.

Thank you for your service, and good luck with your future endeavors.

@Caeden I.

I wouldn't call Evo a corporate beast, Hilary opened the one gym in Concord, it did well enough and she's decided to expand. Just a really nice gym and now I don't have to drive to Manch-Vegas, haha.

Evo just had a grand opening last weekend here in Indianapolis. I don't know if it's just here but one thing that Evo doesn't have which I see costing them a lot of business are auto belays. I go mostly to another gym and most of the time I go alone. A lot of the time I end up hooking up with someone at the gym and we trade belays. When I can't find a partner, I just use the auto belays there. They usually have between 8 and 10 auto belays so there is plenty to work on if you are by yourself. While I really like the Evo facility, I wouldn't get a membership there because I can't count on being able to climb if I show up alone.

So what I guess what I'm saying is get auto belays. At the gym I go to, they're always heavily used. I think without them you will be losing business. Other than that, high wall are a big seller.

I agree autobelays are sweet Mark. I'll ask what the feelings on them are next time I'm at Evo. I know Stone Age Rock Gym in CT has them and it was always awesome when I was down there as it was travel for work and I was by myself.

The one thing I wish there was at Evo, a bouldering cave. But Vertical Dreams is 20 minutes away, plus a buddy of mine is route setting for them so I guess it gives me more reason to swing down there.

I think if given the choice go for higher walls instead of more sqft. If business supports the project, you can always build a couple of stories a lot easier than many stories.

I was recently at a gym in TN that was pretty small in its footprint, but it felt gigantic because it was about 80 ft high. Built on a hill and it looked like they added on to the second story with 30ft walls or so. It has a smaller footprint than the BRC here in Boulder. The routes were long enough to get tired on and get creative with route setting. It felt like it was a larger crowd, but there were a lot of people resting. No one was really waiting in line at any particular route.

The creative route setting is the part I think that you should focus on most. The gym climbs were fun, which I don't really find here. Taller walls give you a bigger canvas.

I genuinely appreciate all the feedback, input, and suggestions. I certainly have a long way to go but much of this will aid me on this exploration. Updates to come I hope.

Duncan B wrote:How should I approach the gym I would be doing research at? I dont want to lie but realize that I could be asking for trouble if when asked why I'm tracking ages, busy times, memberships vs walk-ins, ect if I say I'm planning on opening a gym and taking your south/east MA customers.

If you were planning to open in the same town then yes, they should feel threatened. However, it sounds like you plan to serve people who would have to drive 1+ hour to get to their gym. That might take a few of their customers. It will also make indoor climbing available to lots of people who wouldn't be able to make it work otherwise, strengthen the regional community, etc.... I would start with the hope that there could be opportunities for collaboration.

Hey Duncan. I've had the fortune of having been able to open over 20 businesses over the years. What I can tell you is that funding is going to be your biggest challenge. Unless you have an angel investor or family member that wants to invest over a million dollars in this endeavor, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to open the gym.

SBS loans are basically just a guaranteed loan for the bank. It's intent is to make it more attractive to the loan institution to loan you the money with the guarantee. The reality is that you still have to qualify for the loan with the bank's loan committee. You are highly unlikely to get an SBS loan unless you are going the franchise route. They will want experience and a track record in running a business.

I would consider asking another small gym owner that would like to open in your area and maybe partner up. He would have better luck with a loan, plus you gain the advantage of their experience (and possibly brand). Even if you had an angel investor or family member that was going to put up the money, you would be lucky to get 15-20% at best. The money rules and the money is the risk taker...so they deserve it.

With your architecture background, why not try to work with a wall builder and gain experience in the field. Going around the country building and designing gyms sounds pretty fun for a young guy.

Anyway...just my two cents.

Good luck!

Do you know CRG is opening a Randolph location this summer? facebook.com/CentralRockRan…

It isn't exactly your backyard, but could still attract a lot of your potential customers.

Good luck!

I will echo the tall walls comments, our gym has maybe 40ft walls and is just never really satisfactory.

Something I have seen hinted at but not mentioned is your climbers, probably most of the people who are commenting are mostly training for outdoor climbing in one way or another, the better you cater to that I imagine would increase your memberships. Added bonus you are in the NE and I only buy memberships in the winter which is long up here... is it spring yet?

I am sure some gyms do this but mine does not and I wish they did. Guided trips offered through the gym on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Brings in more money, keeps people climbing, and training, and learning. Plus your guides will have some kind of assessment of the climbers before hand and better able to take them to a climb they will enjoy.
Hire quality climbers to work there. It reflects very poorly on a gym when you have someone working there who doesn't really know their stuff.

very best of luck with your gym

I don't how you get from I started climbing a year ago to I want to open a gym. Don't do it. Already too many gyms causing too many problems and the same goes for guiding. The reality is people are not mature enough to handle this shit. Gyms are the new day care centers around here.

If you love climbing, that's all you need.

says the 14 year old Long Duk Dong

I appreciate all the input. Getting the funding will be a challenge but I am hoping with a well thought out/ presented business plan I will be able to find investors. Fingers crossed* as for the guided tours, I think that's a great idea and I've already spoke men to a few climbers about just that, asking if it was something they would do. The newer climbers seem very interested seeing as it's something they wouldn't have access to. I agree that indoor climbing hits a low point when its warm but I'm hoping the massive population boost of the tourist season will offset that. Duck, there will always be people telling you that you shouldn't/ can't do something. I hope you ignore them just like I am you or you'll end up doing something you hate. Keep baseless negatively off my thread.