I guess you werent trying to be a dick and give me a hard time for my comment??
EricSchmidt, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for one post, because it may be that you don't realize how you have come off in the MP forums.
You are the dick.
The majority of your posts go something like this: (quote statement made by previous poster)
EricSchmidt- "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in the history of hearing things that I've heard. I can't believe you would take time out of your day to say something so dumb, The time it took to stop your day and post something so dumb I can't believe, and I'm the smartest guy I ever met. Ever. You must be a moran (sic), find something better to do other than post your stupid thoughts on the internet. I'm doing really important stuff, and get REALLY PISSED at how dumb your posts are when I hear them, and the right thing is obvious to me, because I'm smart. You're dumb."
This is a rather obnoxious way to respond to people with whom you disagree, and it rubs people the wrong way and paints you in a bad light.
Maybe you're down with that, if so, please carry on. If there is one thing MP forums excel at, it is ruining obnoxious posters, and it is hilarious, but kinda sad, too. It's not too late to be a bit more cordial in your posts and be a welcome member of this forum.
And before you berate me for my long post that cares about something you are unconcerned with, let me just reiterate that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you don't realize how you've ingratiated yourself.
Would I drive around inside the city of Monterrey at that hour? No, not unless it were a life-and-death scenario such as taking someone to the hospital.
I have. But that was last year. I distinctly recall a flat-brown spray-painted truck driving by with guys in the back wearing black ski masks. They were carrying automatic weapons and they had a .50 caliber LMG mounted on the back. I looked down at the license plate and, unsurprisingly, it was missing. I know it was the federal military, but still that is a rather strange sight to see late at night. It looked like something out of a serious bank-robber movie.
My main problem with this is the whole "look what I can get away with in mexico, id be hanged if it were anywhere else" vibe of Ed's post. Just because it isnt in a first world country doesnt mean you dont have to respect whats there. I think regardless of how strict or lax your ethic is you should try not to put shit on the wall that doesnt absolutely have to be there.
I have climbed at potrero before and loved it, but I think that place could use an ethics reality check sometimes..
Why? You feel so strongly about a particular POV that it should be made mandatory everywhere?
I dont think anything should be made mandatory. One thing i've always respected about climbing is its self governance, so if the locals want it that way so be it. This is just my opinion on the subject. I just think that without some base ethics on what should/should not get bolted, you will end up taking a lot away from what otherwise is a beautiful area to climb.
My main problem with this is the whole "look what I can get away with in mexico, id be hanged if it were anywhere else" vibe of Ed's post. Just because it isnt in a first world country doesnt mean you dont have to respect whats there.
Kind of a week argument.
Are you disturbed by the "look what I can get away with at Rifle, I'd be hanged if it were at the Gunks" vibe, out of curiosity? Ethics vary pretty significantly, not just by nation, but by state, region, land ownership, history, user base, and law.
In Ed's case, what he did may seem tacky to some people coming from other areas, just the same way that some people seeking a wilderness experience at the Potrero would think that blasting stereos in the canyon is tacky. However, locals and most visiting users for the most part do not have problems with either.
And for what it's worth, to quote a comment from another thread on this site a while back, complaining about a bolted-on belay platform at Potrero is like complaining that the kiddy-bumper car ride at Disneyland makes you wear seatbelts. The entire philosophy behind route development at Potrero is not to give you a wilderness experience; it is to make BIG routes as easy and accessible as possible to gumby bolt clippers of mediocre abilities, and it's actually a lot of fun. That's it.
I should point out that there is plenty here for the hard climbers as well, as evidenced by Mr. Honnold's recent two-month visit. There's also miles of unclimbed walls so there is plenty of adventure for those who seek it.
ah the "look what others are doing, which is worse, so I should be able to get away with what I'm doing" argument. Yay logical fallacies.
Does that mean we should disregard leave no trace ethics because multinationals are polluting the earth on unbelievable levels?
Sure it may be a drop in the bucket but those drops and the attitude that they don't matter makes a difference. Yes bolts are a "trace" that climbers leave but is one that causes the least possible harm in making a climb possible (if there is no natural pro). But that piece of steel is a unnecessary extravagance that is not needed.
I just think that without some base ethics on what should/should not get bolted, you will end up taking a lot away from what otherwise is a beautiful area to climb.
While I generally dont agree with bolting lines that can easily be protected on gear, I am not as against as it as many are. Some seem to think that bolting a gear-protectable climb turns the route to complete shit and makes it completely unclimbable. I dont find bolts on gear-protectable to have any affect on my experience on the line. Granted, I dont want to see Zion splitters grid bolted, but if I see a bolt next to a crack on The Nose (which does exist), I am not going to flip out. I dont think it is worth the wasted brain power to argue the validity of some random bolted possibly gear-protectable climb. The Compressor route is a perfect example to back my opinion. I find it incomprehensible that someone is so against bolting alpine lines that they decide to exert the monumental time and effort required to chop a multi-day line.
So in short, dont bolt gear-protectable climbs, but dont waste away your life arguing about bolting.
Ed has devoted endless time, energy, and resources to making el potrero chico as amazing as it is. He's made available at no charge thousands of pitches of pure climbing enjoyment (even to the haters). By now he's earned the artistic license to do what he wants and experiment with new ideas. Actually, my EPC partner would have appreciated a belay ledge, she said the hanging belays hurt b/c she was wearing a non padded arc'teryx harness.
Good point. I guess chipping is no longer an issue either since rocks eventually fall of... Maybe I could come to Salt Lake and turn The Coffin into a hand crack because eventually God is going to turn it into one as well.... Some peoples stupidity while trying to make a point is amazing!
I'd say your retort and comparison is just as stupid considering chipping actually changes the rock a red streak of iron oxide only does so aesthetically not physically & the ledge could just as easily be removed like chopping a bolt.