only assisted braking devices allowed in gyms?

Quick aside: In Germany (where Edelrid is based) rock gyms now require all climbers to use brake-assist devices to help prevent belaying accidents. Canadian gyms are taking this policy on as well, and this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s.

blog.weighmyrack.com/edelri…

;)

Not a good idea everyone should learn on an unassisted device. Then move to an assisted.

Is the Jul and smart considered assisted

Sounds like they're just talking about a tube device with a ribbed channel like the ATC Guide. It's higher friction than the single edge the the normal ATC and it's not like a grigri which is autolocking. You let go of the brake and the climber is falling fast.

The problem is not with the device, it's with the user. I own a gri gri and an ATC. I prefer and feel that I have more control with the ATC, so pretty much always that at the gym. Outside when there is rock fall, gri gris are generally safer. But it all boils down to the individual handling the rope. Do they know what they're doing or not?

As long as they demonstrate safe technique and knowledge, gyms should allow people to use whatever device they're most comfortable and safest with.

Speaking of that, belay tests should always include falls in my opinion. I don't understand gyms that don't require you to catch a fall as a part of your lead belay test. Shouldn't that be the one thing they need to know you can do safely as a belayer?

Eric LaRoche wrote:Sounds like they're just talking about a tube device with a ribbed channel like the ATC Guide. It's higher friction than the single edge the the normal ATC and it's not like a grigri which is autolocking. You let go of the brake and the climber is falling fast.

No, the Jul2 and MegaJul are assisted-locking devices like the GriGri (not even Petzl calls it auto-locking). They will lock-up without user interaction in a fall. Of course you never take your brake hand off.

Some gyms in the U.S (Carabiner's in MA and CT) requires everyone to use a GriGri. No other belay devices are allowed.

Its GriGri only at Hoosier Heights in Indiana. I don't mind, although I prefer to belay with an ATC.

This is great news. The irony is there are more accidents with Gri Gris then the other devices. But since they are focusing on the device they are not addressing the real issue here since accidents can happen with most any device. There is more half ass BS lame belaying in Gyms going on everywhere on the planet. They should be focusing on teaching, technique and hurting feelings by pointing out the shity belayers on the floor.

Can see where this tread is headed...

Despite the incredible irony in this, I've seen more than a few falls prevented from idiots not paying attention and climbers falling onto an uninterrupted gri-gri. They do their job, but one day I'm afraid there will be an instance where the urbanite college kid trying to be cool in front of his girl will not be so lucky. Stupidity, everywhere...

Ryan L wrote:..... but one day I'm afraid there will be an instance where the urbanite college kid trying to be cool in front of his girl will not be so lucky.

Lemme fix that.

Actually, as proven by a neighbor of mine (via a skull fracture and 160 odd stitches).............

It's more likely to be some doofus trying to be cool in front of someone he wants to be his girl.

Difference being testoserone blindness vs relational laziness.......

GriGris are far better at saving the lazy than the stoopid.

Ryan L wrote: They do their job, but one day I'm afraid there will be an instance where the urbanite college kid trying to be cool in front of his girl will not be so lucky. Stupidity, everywhere...

Nothing is idiot-proof...

I can understand requiring gri-gris for toprope. It bugged me at first at my local gym, but I got used to it.

bearbreeder wrote:Quick aside: In Germany (where Edelrid is based) rock gyms now require all climbers to use brake-assist devices to help prevent belaying accidents. Canadian gyms are taking this policy on as well, and this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s. blog.weighmyrack.com/edelri… ;)

From beautiful Germany I can report that the above statement is absolute bollocks.

It's more gym to gym I think.. I have been to a gym in New Jersey where my girlfriend lives and they had the gri gri 1 attached to every belay station and you had to use it. I live in Boston area and haven't seen that around here. Stupid people do stupid shit. It doesn't matter what device they use there will still make mistakes.

Brian wrote: No, the Jul2 and MegaJul are assisted-locking devices

Oh, didn't realize that,I stand corrected, thanks.

Gym preference seems to be all over the place. I've seen ATCs pre attached to everything, grigris attached to everything, and nothing attached so use whatever.

This is most likely to keep insurance cost lower. Wait till land owners of crags require this to climb on their land. The climbing world is changing

When I first saw this thread I was thinking Auto Belay as in the True Blue Auto Belay; True Blue Website

The fellow from the Boulder Gym does a fair job explaining why they use it. Many gyms have the true blue installed. At first we didn't like them very much. But they do allow both of us to do independent climbs. We each get more routes in less time.

Traveling around like we do we have been in many gyms. Some just take the fee and you climb, some do belay test and will give you a belay certificate, some require delay test with fall. We have been in gyms with tethered GriGri's on every route. It really has varied a lot.

Brian wrote: No, the Jul2 and MegaJul are assisted-locking devices like the GriGri (not even Petzl calls it auto-locking). They will lock-up without user interaction in a fall. Of course you never take your brake hand off. Some gyms in the U.S (Carabiner's in MA and CT) requires everyone to use a GriGri. No other belay devices are allowed.

This is also bollocks, the Jul2 and MegaJul are certified as manual braking devices. They would never pass the test to be certified as a manual assisted locking device. The GriGri does.

Capt. Impatient wrote:This is most likely to keep insurance cost lower. Wait till land owners of crags require this to climb on their land. The climbing world is changing

Land owners (in the US anyways) can't be held liable for allowing public recreational use of their property, as long as they aren't charging for that use.

Eric LaRoche wrote: Land owners (in the US anyways) can't be held liable for allowing public recreational use of their property, as long as they aren't charging for that use.

That's not true. It depends on the state. Every state has different laws. Some states say you have a duty to warn of an "attractive nuisance" of sorts. So like if you have an empty pool in your backyard and some kids come in and skate in it and get injured, their attorney could argue you had a duty to keep the dangerous area fenced off. In the case of a climbing cliff, an attorney could argue you had a duty to warn via signs that you could fall off a cliff. It all depends on the state.

Jim Titt wrote: From beautiful Germany I can report that the above statement is absolute bollocks.

you mean an intraweb blog that promotes shiny new gear aint a "reliable" source of info ...

who woulda thunk

;)