Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
One Month 'til Indian Creek: can you help me plan my last month of training?
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Mark Roberts
From Vancouver, BC
Feb 25, 2013

I'm a (Squamish) 5.10 climber, never been to the Creek, never climbed sandstone splitters. This will be my eighth season, so I've had lots of mileage on crack climbs and am not so much worried about training my crack technique as getting my endurance up. Most of my crack failures last year were from endurance and the mental game, not strength or technique.

I want to be comfortable and efficient on the 5.10s in IC and not flail, and maybe get in a 5.11- or two if I project them.

It's raining in Squamish, and I'll have to assume it will continue this until we leave so my training will be indoors and away from cracks. My training goal for the next month is to:

a) lose >5 pounds. I'm 6'0" 176lbs, I think if I can get down to 170 it'll likely be the most effective change I could make. I'll be doing this by cutting down on the bad foods, switching wine for beer and increasing my cycling/running. I do this every spring to get down to climbing weight.

b) increase my ARC output. Once or twice a week I've trained endurance for the last few months, and I've gotten up to 36 minutes on the wall. I started moving on to 4x4s, but am starting to reconsider. 36 minutes is good for me, but I feel like this still isn't good enough, and I want to probably be doing 2x30min or 3x30min by the time we hit the road? I generally train this in a bouldering gym with an emphasis of moving perfectly statically, using small holds until I get pumped, then shake on jugs every few minutes.

c) start going roped climbing in the gym more, specifically leading 11-. We have no cracks to speak of in the gym here, but I think if I can get more used to lead falls it will help me climb higher above my gear, helping my efficiency on the wall. (I decked a few years ago after some gear popped, and still struggle with leading as a result...this usually translates to placing more gear than needed and is probably a significant contributor to getting pumped out at my limit.)

I know there seems to be a big debate about endurance's role in increasing performance, some feel strongly that just getting stronger will increase your endurance because holds will feel larger as a result. Something tells me this argument is more significant when it comes to sport climbing. Last summer was the first time I really worked endurance and the first summer I saw a significant increase in my crack climbing ability.

So, any thoughts?


FLAG
By frankstoneline
Feb 25, 2013

www.powercompanyclimbing.com/2013/02/reader-questions-clock->>>

Here is a good place to start. I really like the writing on this blog and the training plan he proposes seems really solid (though I have little experience with sandstone splitter, so take my psyche with a grain of salt)


FLAG
By Derrick W
From Salt Lake City, UT
Feb 25, 2013

My first lead at the creek did not go well. I hung several times. After a day or two, you figure out the keys to climbing at the creek:
1) Place gear at your waist/chest (NOT ABOVE YOUR HEAD) because it's way more efficient
2) Just go. You can stop and place gear literally anywhere, and you'll be tempted to. You must resist the urge. Place gear every 10-15 feet.


FLAG
By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Feb 25, 2013

Mark Roberts wrote:
b) increase my ARC output. Once or twice a week I've trained endurance for the last few months, and I've gotten up to 36 minutes on the wall. I started moving on to 4x4s, but am starting to reconsider. 36 minutes is good for me, but I feel like this still isn't good enough, and I want to probably be doing 2x30min or 3x30min by the time we hit the road? I generally train this in a bouldering gym with an emphasis of moving perfectly statically, using small holds until I get pumped, then shake on jugs every few minutes.

Aim for 10 20min. ARC sessions a week for the 3.5 weeks you have before you rest. The most efficient way is to do 20min. ARC, rest 20min., then another 20min. ARC and call it. Climbing statically is inefficient so you probably don't want to practice it.

Mark Roberts wrote:
. . . I think if I can get more used to lead falls it will help me climb higher above my gear, helping my efficiency on the wall. (I decked a few years ago after some gear popped, and still struggle with leading as a result...

This is the biggest thing climbers can do to improve their performance.


FLAG
By Mark Roberts
From Vancouver, BC
Feb 25, 2013

frankstoneline wrote:
www.powercompanyclimbing.com/2013/02/reader-questions-clock->>> Here is a good place to start. I really like the writing on this blog and the training plan he proposes seems really solid (though I have little experience with sandstone splitter, so take my psyche with a grain of salt)


I actually did read that blog post already, but thank you. It does seem to be tailor-made to address my questions. However, I thought it was strange that he mentioned that people don't have all the time in the world to train, then suggested a six-day-a-week training regimen, with some sessions being five hours long.

I do not have six days a week to train. I have a girlfriend, non girl friends, etc. I also found the emphasis on hang-boarding counterintuitive for prepping for 5.10s in the Creek, but I'm no expert.


FLAG
By JCM
From Golden, CO
Feb 25, 2013

Mark Roberts wrote:
. I also found the emphasis on hang-boarding counterintuitive for prepping for 5.10s in the Creek, but I'm no expert.


I generally agree with that criticism of the article. I think that the author has fallen a bit too in love with his hangboard, and is reccomending it for a situation where it doesn't make too much sense.

At this point, the emphasis on endurance is good. Being able to do a hard, crimpy move is meaningless for creek 5.10-5.11, so don't wory about power; every hold will be a hand jam. Forearm endurance and core fitness, along with good technique and tactics, are what matters. Since you are a Squamish climber, we can assume that your crack technique is solid. The most IC-like pitch in Squish that I can think of is the Split Pillar, just to give you an idea of what you are preparing for. At 5.10 in IC, you'll basically only be climbing hands, tight hands, wide hands, and fists; don't worry about training for fingerlocks (or crimps, for that matter), since all the IC finger cracks are 5.12 anyway.

As such, what you really want work on is forearm endurance and core strength. For a variety of reasons, I think that IC climbs steeper than it is. Although it is generally dead-vertical, it climbs like it was 15-20 degrees overhanging, in the way that it is pumpy, and works the back muscles. This is especially true of routes that require laybacking. As such, prepare as if you were training not for vertical crimp routes, but more for slightly overhanging endurance jug hauling. A hand jam really isn't all that different than a jug.

Anyway, you'll get the most benefit out of

--ARCing for pure endurance

--Leading routes in the gym on a slightly to moderately overhanging wall for power endurance and mental/leading training. This will also work the back and core. Take some falls.

--Some cardio, to drop some weight and for leg fitness (calf pump and fatigue can definately be a factor on long IC routes). Do soem core work too (planks, levers, etc etc).

--If it ever stops raining, get up to Squamish and run laps on a steep, straight-in crack

--Don't worry about it too much. The great thing about the Creek is how unique it is, but it also makes it harder to prepare for. No matter what you do, there will be some learning curve when you arrive. That is why you go to the Creek, after all. However, if you show up with good jamming skills, good endurance, and good general body fitness, you'll do just fine. If you are solid on steep 5.10 hand cracks in Squamish, you'll feel right at home on Creek 5.10.


FLAG
By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Feb 25, 2013
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress

As an aside, I assume you've climbed the Split Pillar? If so, that's pretty similar to a creek 5.10-. That's the closest thing to an IC corner I've personally come across except for the routes down here at Trout Creek. So how you've handled the Split Pillar will probably be a good prediction of how you'll handle many 10-s at the creek.


FLAG
By Devin Fin
From DURANGO
Feb 25, 2013
dream canyon fun!

don't waste time placing right off the ground climb ten feet then place . have plenty of cams . don't be worried about falling. get on climbs that suite yer style . and just cuz it's not in the book don't not get on it.go to out of the way crags that have less people an you might have the crag to yer self.


FLAG
By JLP
From The Internet
Feb 25, 2013

Don't bother with strength training for 5.10, you'll probably just piss it away on lead with poor technique. ARCing sounds like a good idea, but make sure it's steep enough to hit the crack climbing pull muscles and no less than 1 number below your consistant onsight level, otherwise I see it as a waste of time as well. Anyone can climb 5.stupid-easy indefinitely, and doing so will not make you fitter. IC is all about endurance and technique. Dropping weight and taking falls are universally good ideas for any style of climbing.


FLAG
By Wally
From Denver
Feb 25, 2013

Losing 5 pounds - agreed! Go there leaner is a big part of it. Instead of switching from wine to beer - consider take more nights off drinking. I love to drink! - but would rather send!

Climbing gym training - yes, should help. Outside is better, but you don't have that option.

Split Pillar - I thought was pretty darn hard. I have sent many 11s at Indian Creek - and had to fight to get Split Pillar. Maybe I was having an off day.

Indian Creek is a blast! Climb Ohn. Wally


FLAG
By Sean Nelb
From Grand Junction, CO
Feb 25, 2013
Some Like it Hot (5.12b). Devils Tower, WY

Train power endurance more than general endurance. Cut down on the ARC sessions and get a forearm pump going much faster. IC pitches are short. It sounds like you're training for a marathon when you need to train for sprinting.

Don't underestimate technique. If you're climbing 5.10 cracks, the odds are its not just endurance keeping you from the higher grades. Efficient jamming and gear placement are key. Don't waste energy sewing a crack up every 4 ft if the placements are solid. Place from rests whenever possible.

Be motivated and commit to the climb; I see far more trad climbers hang then fall (especially at the Creek) because they aren't willing to push themselves even when the gear is good. Whether its fear of falling or fear of failure, overcoming this problem and pushing through the uncertain moves is key.

Lastly, start using sandpaper on your hands and fingers!


FLAG
By slim
Administrator
Feb 25, 2013
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

i think probably the most important thing you can do at this point is to do some foot preparation. first, and foremost, make sure you have a pair of comfortable shoes that aren't tight. if you can't put as much weight on your feet as possible, you are going to be in for a rough time. luckily, you probably climb at squamish a fair amount, so your feet are probably used to climbing cracks, and you probably have some loose shoes.

other than that, i would recommend doing pinch grip workouts, as that seems to be one of the few things (other than building crack specific training apparati) that will work the muscle at the base of your thumb. this is the muscle that will get worked on most of the 5.01 routes there. i would recommend cutting a couple 9 inch pieces of 2x4, drilling a hole approx 2 inches from the end, and slinging some cord through it. then, attach some weights to the cord. for IC enduro type of workout, hold the pinch for 20 seconds, rest for 10 seconds, repeat like an ARC workout for 30 minutes. you should be able to do this 2 days in a row, then rest a day, etc. try to work up to doing 2 sets each evening.


FLAG
By frankstoneline
Feb 25, 2013

Mark Roberts wrote:
I actually did read that blog post already, but thank you. It does seem to be tailor-made to address my questions. However, I thought it was strange that he mentioned that people don't have all the time in the world to train, then suggested a six-day-a-week training regimen, with some sessions being five hours long. I do not have six days a week to train. I have a girlfriend, non girl friends, etc. I also found the emphasis on hang-boarding counterintuitive for prepping for 5.10s in the Creek, but I'm no expert.


Many of the workouts he proposes could be tailored to your time. Hangboarding doesnt have to take 2 hours, could be done in 45 minutes while cooking dinner or when you wake up. Also he suggests building a crack hangboard, so it seems to me it would be quite applicable. That said, "not a lot of time to workout" is a very relative thing, as is whether or not you are willing to sacrifice some socializing in favor of prepping for a trip (note: I'm not trying to pass judgement).

That said, if you want to avoid a hangboard and squamish is still...well, squamish it seems like the outlined ARC'ing and general cardio if you wish to drop some pounds are a good idea.


FLAG
By AnonSandbagger
Feb 25, 2013

step 1) Ditch gym membership for working out in garage. Buy more cams.

step 2) Drop as much weight as possible

step 3) Drill hole in big wooden dowel, tie rope with weight on the end. now torque it. every day.

step 4) Do a million crunches and pull ups

step 5) Quit job. Train harder.

step 6) Brush teeth with sand

step 7) Sell bed for more cams. sleep on floor in sleeping bag.

step 8) Climb 5.10 in IC


FLAG
By Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Feb 25, 2013

If most of the stuff you'll be climbing is straight in stuff (vs. liebacking a corner) and it's too soggy outside, just build a crack machine and make sure you're not neglecting your arm and upper back strength. I find modest use of dumbbells really helps when I'm not at the gym all the time. Really the most critical thing is making sure your crack technique is solid. Lots of folks waste lots of energy (and skin!) with sloppy jams and footwork. As long as you're reasonably fit and know how to jam, 5.10 at the Creek isn't that bad. The most painful part is springing for all those cams. Some easier .11s like Pente and Excuse Stations take huge racks.

Have fun!


FLAG
By JCM
From Golden, CO
Feb 26, 2013

Mark:

In summary, you have gotten a wide spread of advice, with everyone reccommending different things. Several people have advocated building various bizarre training devices, which you would probably never actually get around to using. You probably are more confused about what to do than before you started this thread. I'd say, don't listen to all these schemes about crack machines and pinch-grip devices. A month isn't enough time to build these things, figure out how to use them and then get any value out of them anyway.

Fact is, you already know what you need to do. Indian Creek is just vertical crack climbing, which you already know how to do from Squamish. Sure, the texture is a bit different, and it is more sustained, and there are less face holds, but the general idea is the same. The training ideas you mentioned in your original post are pretty much on the money. Follow those instincts, and don't bother with any of these half-baked, ill-tested ideas. Just prepare as you would for the Squamish season, and that should work pretty well. Lose some weight, work on general climbing fitness, run laps on the lead wall in the gym, get some endurance, and don't overthink things. You'll do just fine in the Creek; Squamish climbers usually are quite successful there.


FLAG
By Mark Roberts
From Vancouver, BC
Feb 28, 2013

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Yeah, I don't have room for a hangboard or anything like it in my place anyhow, all the door frames are weird that way. It's frustrating.

I thought the most important advice that I'd never considered was that about training at 10-20% overhang. This actually makes a lot of sense, as if I'm training on vertical then I'm hanging on crimps and slopers, both of which I can do for a long time and won't be useful in the Creek.

I'm going to the gym now, will try arcing several 20min sessions. Appreciate the time you all took for advice, thanks again.


FLAG
By JohnnyG
Feb 28, 2013

you are going to have a blast down there!

I suggest some aerobic training too. Maybe running, hiking, whatever. I'm no training guru, but from my experience at Indian Creek, I think a good set of lungs will go a long way.

3/4 up those enduro climbs, and I always feel like I'm breathing deep like I'm climbing a big hill on my bike or in the zone on an approach hike. It's a pretty cool feeling on a climb.


FLAG
By Bryan Gall
From New Castle, CO
Feb 28, 2013

Slam your hand in a car door. Drink a PBR. Now your foot in the door and another barley soda. Repeat the process until it doesn't hurt anymore. Maybe sand the skin off your knuckles and the backs of your hands if your looking to really push it. And fried chicken-and probably whiskey. I'm pretty sure they're involved. And somebody said something about tape; fuck that shit though-it's aid.


FLAG
By JCM
From Golden, CO
Mar 1, 2013

Mark Roberts wrote:
I thought the most important advice that I'd never considered was that about training at 10-20% overhang. This actually makes a lot of sense, as if I'm training on vertical then I'm hanging on crimps and slopers, both of which I can do for a long time and won't be useful in the Creek.


Yeah, there is a physicallity to Creek climbing that you generally don't find on vertical face climbs; overhanging jug hauling gives a better approximation.


FLAG
By PumpkinEater
From Sacramento
Mar 1, 2013
Slab traverse on Cooper-Kor, Bugaboos.

One word. Tabata.


FLAG
By mtoensing
From Boulder
Mar 1, 2013
Props to my home state show

Take a hammer in one hand and smash the other hand repeatedly. You'll be climbing 5.11- in no time.


FLAG
By Brian Adzima
From the Paris of Appalachia
Mar 1, 2013
somewhere in WV

If you want to hit some of the more remote crags you might want to make sure you in shape for humping alot of gear up steep and loose terrain. All the cams, water, ropes (lots of 50 m routes) and clothes for the temperature changes really adds up.


FLAG
By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Mar 1, 2013
Beagle

get a few Link Cams, they're life savers at the cruxes in Indian Creek - where picking the wrong cam can send you in to panic mode. And, if you haven't climbed there, picking the wrong cam will happen!


FLAG
By hrdeyo
From Longmont, CO
Mar 1, 2013

You've got a good plan laid out, from here I would relax and focus efforts on a few 12oz curls, unless you can get your hands on silos, in which case I would go that route. happy sending


FLAG
By Rafael Rovirosa
From Las Cruces, NM
Mar 1, 2013

IC is all technique and mindset. Here it is:
1. Stay on your feet.
2. Don't over grip. Use jams to keep you in and feet to keep you up.
3. Place at your waist. Don't waste energy by placing cams high.
4. GO! Just keep moving. You can still climb even if you are pumped.

You learn the nuances of all the jam techniques after being at the creek for about 1 month, but really the big tricks are what I listed.


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>