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Ondra climbs 5.15c
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By Tradoholic
Oct 5, 2012
Sadly, Ondra still can't get laid.

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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Oct 5, 2012
You stay away from mah pig!
S.P.L.T. Image wrote:
Sadly, Ondra still can't get laid.


probably for the best. if he discovered sex, he'd probably forget about climbing.

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By JCM
From Seattle, WA
Oct 5, 2012
camhead wrote:
probably for the best. if he discovered sex, he'd probably forget about climbing.


Although it might help him release some tension, and cut down on the tantrums.

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By Rajiv Ayyangar
From Portland, ME
Oct 8, 2012
Cut! Sadly my flash attempt met with dismal pump-failure two bolts later.
A very interesting discussion with the expected baiters ("grades don't matter", "hardest move", "It's all subjective"...). Despite the difficulty in pinning down objective route grades, they are a significant consensus measure of progression in our sport. (I'll add: Just one of several possible, and equally valid directions, before all the tradsters and alpinists lynch me).

What makes Ondra's claim of 15c both serious and thought-provoking (as opposed to the quickly-dismissed and oft-forgotten claims of Fred Rouhling and Bernabe Fernandez to mid-15's in the past), is that (as some have said in previous pages) Ondra has demonstrated a willingness to take the grading of routes more seriously than ego, performance, or sponsorship. He's downgraded routes, but that's nothing new in today's ego-driven world. It takes even more guts to upgrade routes, which he has also done.

One of the major driving forces in the current climbing scene's effort to consolidate and solidify the grading scale is a class of elite (and near-elite) climbers who travel between areas, and help to normalize the grades on a global scale. Adam Ondra has climbed (according to 8a.nu):

Five 15b's (2 repats)
Thirteen 15a's (5 repeats)
44 14d's.

Furthermore, his 15's span 12 crags in at least 5 different countries. Ondra's claim of 15c comes with an authority that few other climbers can hope to match. I for one have no intention of dismissing this as a "personal best" or "just a really difficult route." This is potentially a historic route that will move the sport forward (for those of us who consider sport climbing our sport).

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By mozeman
Oct 9, 2012
Peter Adamson wrote:
Looks like more of a gneiss (without close inspection). A lot of the banded formations aren't really typical of granite.



the Gneiss in this situation was most likely a granitic rock prior to being metamorphosed, this is why most gneiss formations tend to look and climb like granite sometimes, it is because they were once a granitic type of rock. Also when people refer to "Granite" the majority of the time they are referring to a rock that is not actual the rock granite but rather a granitic type of rock that is rich in silica and oxygen. This is why anorthosite of the Adirondacks is commonly referred to as climbing on granite when in actuality anorthosite is a mineral that makes up the particular rock.

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By mozeman
Oct 9, 2012
and as far as the hardest move thing goes. Several of the hardest boulderers such as dave graham have been documented as stating that there is no harder move than V13...idk where that fits into the arguments going on right now but i felt like i should contribute some bit of useless knowledge that will get me no where outside of MP

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By Greg Springer
From Minneapolis
Oct 9, 2012
Friends big puppy
Dylan Colon wrote:
Are there routes out there that have moves harder than the hardest move on The Change? Almost certainly. Does this make them harder than The Change? Definitely not. If the grading system does not reflect this than it is not very useful, in my opinion. The concept of grading based on the hardest move is a relic from the days when most routes were slabby and almost every stance afforded some kind of rest where you could allow lactic acid to drain from your muscles. I've done 5.11- routes that had single moves harder than the hardest move on some 5.12 routes I've tried. That does not mean that the 5.12 routes in question (mostly at the Red) should be downgraded. In summary, it seems pretty likely that The Change is now the hardest route in the world. Any sensible grading system should reflect that.


I think this is a spot on reply.

Congrats to Adam, I'll never be able to climb that hard and it's entertaining to see someone else dominate the wall like that. I don't bother getting into these arguments over grading systems or pre-hung draws because I'm just a schmuck who climbs because i like climbing rocks, I know i'll never be a "great" climber, and that's ok.

I'm not really bothered by what the masses may think of this, or why/why not it's 5.15c, it's fun to watch other people climb, some of you need to relax and get back to basics, like having fun

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