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Old incident about a biner snapped, anyone knows more info about this?
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By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Aug 16, 2012
Thanks Hank Caylor!

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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Aug 16, 2012
Mathematical!
Sounds to me like he didn't clip his rope to his biner after threading it through his ATC and before weighting the rope.

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By TKHouse
Aug 16, 2012
Never seen that video before. Interesting accident. If the rappel biner was the same one as in the video then clearly it did not "snap", but appears to have had some interesting damage done to it!

I've only seen a biner have it's gate brought around to the other side once before. A belayer was trying to go up his side of the rope to a climber using a grigri. He at one point clipped a quickdraw to his belay loop and to a bolt. After trying to pull a challenging move, he fell onto the draw / bolt. The fall and carabiner gate interaction on his harness was enough to pop a gate to the opposite side. The biner was a non-locker.

I'd imagine the biner in the video wasn't locked when that happened, but who knows... Lucky guy.

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By Conor Byrne
Aug 16, 2012
cross loaded across the gate maybe?

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By shred-tahoe-gnar
Aug 26, 2012
Conor Byrne wrote:
cross loaded across the gate maybe?


i was gonna say the same thing... maybe cross-loaded and unlocked?

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By bearbreeder
Aug 26, 2012


an example of an xloading failure according to BD

remember that even an exloaded locker has a failure point of 6-7 kn ... they should not break during a rappel ... especially if locked

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By rafael
From Berkeley, CA
Sep 2, 2012
part way up the east buttress of Mt. Whitney, Iceb...
cross loaded and not fully locked? then when it was weighted it popped open, at such speed as to bust the spring closing mechanism?

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By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Sep 4, 2012
Thanks Hank Caylor!
When I am looking up some info about cross loading the biner, I found this outdoors.stackexchange.com/que...


In that post, there are someone mentioning that putting the belaying biner through both attachment points instead of putting it through the belay loop may weaken the biner.

What's you 2 cents on that?

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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2012
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV
Just curious:

How does everyone set up their belay/rappel with an ATC?..

...with the wide end (not sideways, but the wider end that is not cross loading) of the biner touching the ATC or the narrow end touching the ATC?

Which way is safest?

Thanks

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By Alex McIntyre
From Tucson, AZ
Sep 4, 2012
Bang wrote:
When I am looking up some info about cross loading the biner, I found this outdoors.stackexchange.com/que... In that post, there are someone mentioning that putting the belaying biner through both attachment points instead of putting it through the belay loop may weaken the biner. What's you 2 cents on that?

This results in the biner being loaded in 3 directions, as opposed to the 2 it was designed for. One of these tends to be closer to the gate side also, further exacerbating the problem. The belay loop may not be redundant, but if the 40kn belay loop breaks you've got far bigger problems than a lack of redundancy. Some gyms require that the belay carabiner be clipped through both tie-in points despite this, and I've never understood why.

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By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Sep 4, 2012
Thanks Hank Caylor!
Alex McIntyre wrote:
The belay loop may not be redundant, but if the 40kn belay loop breaks you've got far bigger problems than a lack of redundancy. Some gyms require that the belay carabiner be clipped through both tie-in points despite this, and I've never understood why.


Interestingly, one of the guys I know always belay through the two tie-in points. And he told me one time that a gym told him to use the belay loop instead, claiming the manufacture suggesting the belay loop is more secure than the tie-in points. In that context, I would think the other way around, until I realize the biner problem pointed out above.

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By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Sep 4, 2012
Thanks Hank Caylor!
Jon Zucco wrote:
Just curious: How does everyone set up their belay/rappel with an ATC?.. ...with the wide end (not sideways, but the wider end that is not cross loading) of the biner touching the ATC or the narrow end touching the ATC? Which way is safest? Thanks



Hi Jon, according to the vid, it seems they use the larger end of the pearl shaped biner for both the anchor attachment point and the belaying

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By Jim Amidon
Sep 4, 2012
J TREE
I always chuckle when I see anyone outside or inside belaying thu both tie in points.

It creates a diagonal/cross loading of the biner, instead of when it's in your belay loop, (read here BELAY LOOP) where you should always belay and rappel from.

This BELAY LOOP is the strongest part of you harness.

It's called a BELAY LOOP for the use of BELAYING.......

It keeps your biner in a loos configuration and allows for the proper loading of the biner.

With belaying from both tie in points, the small end can become fixed thus causing a cross loading scenario.....

Same thing can happen when you rappel.........

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By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Sep 5, 2012
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Ka...
Hi all, after watching this video several times I don't know how you can tell the biner broke.

What did I miss???

Showing a stock photo of a wire gate that has been destroyed is not any proof.

If you use a locker through both points your doing it wrong.

The Belay loop only, what- you think its going to break?

It looks to me that the dude didn't clip in properly, you miss the biner, or you only get one strand clipped .... its by by pappa.

I did miss one strand one time while rappin in T-storm.... lucky for me, the knot went to the anchor and stopped.

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By The Mother Ship
Sep 5, 2012
Looks very Blair Witch Project!

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