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By Gunks
From Gunks, NY
Jul 13, 2013

Any idea who made this biner and how old it is? It's quite heavy (steel?).

Old biner
Old biner


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 13, 2013

Gunks wrote:
Any idea who made this biner and how old it is? It's quite heavy (steel?).

Wow, what a ridiculous design. What does the Sanskrit say on the side?


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By Brian in SLC
Jul 13, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

I'd guess its a Marwa. Probably 50's?

Goes with the ice screw/corkscrew:

Marwa
Marwa


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By Brian in SLC
Jul 13, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

This might help nail down the date...from the 1954/1955 Holubar catalog:

1954/55 Holubar catalog Marwa Karabiner
1954/55 Holubar catalog Marwa Karabiner


Some fun history on the inventor of that carabiner (translated from wiki):

Wastl Mariner

Sebastian Mariner (* 1909 , † April 3 1989 ), called Wastlhöhe Sea, was an Austrian mountaineer and inventor of Inzing .

Mariner, a trained mechanical engineer, is considered one of the pioneers of the Austrian Mountain Rescue and developed, among other things, the MARWA rubber sole for climbing shoes and MARWA-ice screw. Also named after him Mariner node was developed by him. [1] He also invented the so-called MARWA carabiner having a breaking strength of 16 kN. [2] Together with Wiggerl Gramminger he invented the main equipment of the mountain rescue today: the steel cable device and the winch, and the mountain carrying the Akia in its current form and the Abseilsack. [3] From 1939 to 1955 he was director of the Innsbruck Mountain Rescue. The mountaineering school of Austrian Alpine Club was founded by him and directed volunteer until 1971. So Wastlhöhe Mariner has written the first book of teaching and training for the Austrian mountain rescue service. [4] Also one of the first cinematic contributions on mountain rescue is developed by Mariner rescue techniques. [5]

In 1948 the Austrian Alpine Association invited under the direction of Wastlhöhe Mariner first neighboring alpine rescue services to a meeting in the "stone gutter" at the Wilder Kaiser in. Here were the participants, these were mountain rescue specialists and doctors from Germany (from the DAV and the BRK Mountain Rescue), from France (SAD Army), Italy ( AVS and CAI ) Switzerland (Army and SAC ) and of course Austria ( Austrian Mountain Rescue Service and PES ) modern rescue equipment and methods demonstrated. Here, the establishment of a working group to coordinate the Alpine rescue service in the Alps has been agreed. So was the ICAR (International Commission for Alpine Rescue) officially established in 1955 in Bolzano as a result of the first meeting in 1948.

Mariner was first ascent (1935) of the southwestern pillar on Öfelekopf in Wettersteingebirge together with Hans Frenademetz and Iliad Rebitsch . In 1940 he ascended for the first time the North Face of Hochfeiler together with Karl Haupt, Walter Nagele and Fritz Schweinitzhaupt. [6] Sea boarded the winter of 1942 with Paul Aschenbrenner (the younger brother of mountaineer Peter Aschenbrenner ), the north wall of Serles . [7] Mariner is also found in The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer mention:

"A few years ago Dr. Heinrich Klier and Wastlhöhe Mariner came to Kleine Scheidegg, to make the Eiger. The conditions had not been favorable. The two did something that unfortunately is becoming increasingly rare under Eiger candidates: They did not wait. Do not besieged the wall. You just went mountain climbing. The beautiful Bernese Oberland. Made traditional routes through the northern high walls, even found new, difficult, interesting ascents on mountains that have already been received into the alpine history, shock mounted horn and Finstaarhorn and Fiescherhörner and a dozen summits. " [8]

Mariner 38 made first ascents, some of them in the highest difficulty. On Mont Blanc du Tacul he was Zweitbegeher about Cervasutti coloirs. In 1954 he was leader of the mountain expedition OeAV Hans Kinzls in the Cordillera Huayhuash [9] . The expedition, which was also Heinrich Klier attended the summit Puscanturpa, Sarapo, reached Jirishanca Chico (first ascent) and Ninashanca. In Africa, he undertook tours in the Rwenzori Mountains and climbed not only to Mount Kenya , but all of Africa 5000 (1963) [10] . In his career, he climbed a total of 3603 peaks.

The book "Latter mountain rescue technique" was translated into English by T. Otto Trott and Kurt G. Beam and paved the way for the development of the alpine rescue in the U.S.. Meanwhile the book is available in 7 languages. Him the sport merit of the city in 1968 for his achievements Innsbruck awarded. For his tireless efforts, he received the honorary title of "professor" by the Austrian Federal President. Even with 77 years boarded the Mariner Ortler . Mariner died on 3 April 1989, just one day after the death of the American "father of mountain rescue," Ome Daiber. [11]


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By Gunks
From Gunks, NY
Jul 13, 2013

Brian, thanks for the info. The letterings on the biner I have are well worn and appear to be "M pat" or "M dat". I am amazed that you identified the biner so fast. Thanks again.


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 14, 2013

Brian in SLC wrote:
This might help nail down the date...from the 1954/1955 Holubar catalog: Some fun history on the inventor of that carabiner (translated from wiki): Wastl Mariner Sebastian Mariner (* 1909 , † April 3 1989 ), called Wastlhöhe Sea, was an Austrian mountaineer and inventor of Inzing . Mariner, a trained mechanical engineer, is considered one of the pioneers of the Austrian Mountain Rescue and developed, among other things, the MARWA rubber sole for climbing shoes and MARWA-ice screw. Also named after him Mariner node was developed by him. [1] He also invented the so-called MARWA carabiner having a breaking strength of 16 kN. [2] Together with Wiggerl Gramminger he invented the main equipment of the mountain rescue today: the steel cable device and the winch, and the mountain carrying the Akia in its current form and the Abseilsack. [3] From 1939 to 1955 he was director of the Innsbruck Mountain Rescue. The mountaineering school of Austrian Alpine Club was founded by him and directed volunteer until 1971. So Wastlhöhe Mariner has written the first book of teaching and training for the Austrian mountain rescue service. [4] Also one of the first cinematic contributions on mountain rescue is developed by Mariner rescue techniques. [5] In 1948 the Austrian Alpine Association invited under the direction of Wastlhöhe Mariner first neighboring alpine rescue services to a meeting in the "stone gutter" at the Wilder Kaiser in. Here were the participants, these were mountain rescue specialists and doctors from Germany (from the DAV and the BRK Mountain Rescue), from France (SAD Army), Italy ( AVS and CAI ) Switzerland (Army and SAC ) and of course Austria ( Austrian Mountain Rescue Service and PES ) modern rescue equipment and methods demonstrated. Here, the establishment of a working group to coordinate the Alpine rescue service in the Alps has been agreed. So was the ICAR (International Commission for Alpine Rescue) officially established in 1955 in Bolzano as a result of the first meeting in 1948. Mariner was first ascent (1935) of the southwestern pillar on Öfelekopf in Wettersteingebirge together with Hans Frenademetz and Iliad Rebitsch . In 1940 he ascended for the first time the North Face of Hochfeiler together with Karl Haupt, Walter Nagele and Fritz Schweinitzhaupt. [6] Sea boarded the winter of 1942 with Paul Aschenbrenner (the younger brother of mountaineer Peter Aschenbrenner ), the north wall of Serles . [7] Mariner is also found in The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer mention: "A few years ago Dr. Heinrich Klier and Wastlhöhe Mariner came to Kleine Scheidegg, to make the Eiger. The conditions had not been favorable. The two did something that unfortunately is becoming increasingly rare under Eiger candidates: They did not wait. Do not besieged the wall. You just went mountain climbing. The beautiful Bernese Oberland. Made traditional routes through the northern high walls, even found new, difficult, interesting ascents on mountains that have already been received into the alpine history, shock mounted horn and Finstaarhorn and Fiescherhörner and a dozen summits. " [8] Mariner 38 made first ascents, some of them in the highest difficulty. On Mont Blanc du Tacul he was Zweitbegeher about Cervasutti coloirs. In 1954 he was leader of the mountain expedition OeAV Hans Kinzls in the Cordillera Huayhuash [9] . The expedition, which was also Heinrich Klier attended the summit Puscanturpa, Sarapo, reached Jirishanca Chico (first ascent) and Ninashanca. In Africa, he undertook tours in the Rwenzori Mountains and climbed not only to Mount Kenya , but all of Africa 5000 (1963) [10] . In his career, he climbed a total of 3603 peaks. The book "Latter mountain rescue technique" was translated into English by T. Otto Trott and Kurt G. Beam and paved the way for the development of the alpine rescue in the U.S.. Meanwhile the book is available in 7 languages. Him the sport merit of the city in 1968 for his achievements Innsbruck awarded. For his tireless efforts, he received the honorary title of "professor" by the Austrian Federal President. Even with 77 years boarded the Mariner Ortler . Mariner died on 3 April 1989, just one day after the death of the American "father of mountain rescue," Ome Daiber. [11]

Wow, we have came a long ways. "The strongest carabiner" back then only held 3,600 lbf where some modern-day carabiners can hold upwards of 12,000 lbf+.


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By Sandy Crimp
Jul 14, 2013

20 kN wrote:
Wow, we have came a long ways. "The strongest carabiner" back then only held 3,600 lbf where some modern-day carabiners can hold upwards of 12,000 lbf+.



That and the internet and space exploration and medical science advancements.

:-)


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By Woodchuck ATC
Jul 14, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Salvadore Dali?


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By ACR
Jul 15, 2013

I think your model is one of the earlier versions. Some of the MARWAs I have seen have no markings stamped on them at all and I have wondered if they pre-date both Stubai's production and any patent concerns. Some of mine from different eras have "Stubai Austria" stamped on one side with the other side blank while others have only the "M/W PAT" stamp and nothing else.
All the styles of MARWA carabiner I have found in the 1950 era catalogs have a well defined center section:

Mid-1950's MARWA carabiner
Mid-1950's MARWA carabiner

Brian posted a great photo of a very rounded version with a much improved gate design and I think that was still in production until the mid to late 1960's although not commonly imported to the states by then.
Here are a few more shots from my collection to illustrate some differences I have found in these cool carabiners:

MARWA carabiners
MARWA carabiners


The old style non-hooking gate design
The old style non-hooking gate design

The gate had no notch or pin to secure it when loaded.

Difference in thickness
Difference in thickness


size comparison: MARWA (early 1950's) and first generation Chouinard (early 1950's)
size comparison: MARWA (early 1950's) and first generation Chouinard (early 1950's)

The non-locking versions were significantly thinner than the lockers. The gates almost seem delicate but a lot of attention to detail went into the design so I guess they were pretty strong for their time. The non-locking carabiner above also has the "notched" or "spade gate" design found on many Stubai carabiners at the time.

Hope that helps anyone out there with similar questions.


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By Gunks
From Gunks, NY
Jul 15, 2013

Thanks, ACR. You have quite a collection. The one I have is the Keylock/non-hooking locker.


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By ACR
Jul 15, 2013

Nice! The earliest I've seen that style is in a 1952/53 Blacks sporting goods catalog from the UK. They might have been around earlier but that's the oldest catalog I have to verify my info with. Someone else might be able to date it earlier.


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By Brian in SLC
Jul 15, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

Wow...ACR...nice! And, an Alcoa to boot!

Well done!


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By ACR
Jul 16, 2013

Thanks Brian!


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By gearwhore
From Orange, CA
Jul 24, 2013

Whoa! how do these threads sneek past me?

I am looking for a locking Marwa. Have $, a spare unused nonlocking Marwa or Alcoa to trade.

Anyone?

PS did not see it mentioned yet, but this design was created so that the carabiner was strong enough to have the gate opened when weighted.


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 25, 2013

gearwhore wrote:
PS did not see it mentioned yet, but this design was created so that the carabiner was strong enough to have the gate opened when weighted.

That is funny considering that is a UIAA requirement for modern-day AL carabiners.


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By sonvclimbing
From bolder city
Jul 25, 2013
cowboy over tower

Brian, your Holubar catalog misspelled his name?
We want to see the rest of the catalog.
Please!
P.S. I prolly misspelled something as well.


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By gearwhore
From Orange, CA
Jul 25, 2013

^ yeah like the word PROBABLY..just say'n.


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By gearwhore
From Orange, CA
Jul 25, 2013

I am looking for a locking Marwa. Have $, a spare unused nonlocking Marwa or Chouinard Alcoa to trade.

Anyone?


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By ACR
Jul 26, 2013

I went through my stuff and put this together:

Close re-creation of Brian's Holubar catalog (corrected)
Close re-creation of Brian's Holubar catalog (corrected)

LtoR: Steel oval 2200 lbs (no other marks), Bedayn carabiner, P. Allain carabiner (blind gate), MARWA carabiner, locker

The locker might not be exactly right. I have a non-locking version of a carabiner that looks closer to the catalog.

Re-creating Brians Holubar catalog (Alcoa in the middle,non locker on the right)
Re-creating Brians Holubar catalog (Alcoa in the middle,non locker on the right)

This one has a Chouinard ALCOA instead of the Pierre Allain carabiner and a non-locker on the right.

While it was certainly true that the MARWA carabiner shape might allow it to open when loaded (depending on the load applied) I was always under the impression that this style took its concept from hooks used by early firemen and tradesmen to hang things from ladder rungs. The kidney shape and the wide flare of each end made it hang straight and stable in that application.
I'm sure the main idea was to make the strongest unit possible while retaining the features that made it suitable to carry in an alpine environment (size, weight, strength). The gate design changed a little as did the size and shape as time when on. My non-locker has the "spade" style notched gate and will not open when weighted. I know its probably at least 60 years old so I'll cut it some slack. The "blind" gate lockers will open while weighted.


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By Drew Nevius
From Oklahoma
Jul 26, 2013
BETA: For me, crux move was sticking the move to the flake above these crimps

I believe those are called Jelly 'Biners


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By gearwhore
From Orange, CA
Jul 26, 2013

Wish I have both versions of the half moon carabiners as well. not sure how these (3) types have escaped me but they have. If anyone has them - hit me back I have plenty of spares to trade and/or cash.


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