O'Kelley's Crack 

How a route with a hard-V3 boulder problem off the deck can still be called 10c is beyond me... but such is tradition I guess. I think one of the guidebooks calls it 11a. This area can be very cold in the winter as it faces NE.

A very powerful route with a problematic start, let the tall guy lead, but make sure he's butch.

Position, exposure, purity

Including the start.

FA: Tobin Sorenson, Jim Wilson, Dean Fidelman, Gary Ayres, 3/75. Tobin was wild man on and off the rock (but seemed a real decent guy). The early to mid seventies was the start of the real exprolation of Joshua Tree (other than Hidden Valley C.G.) for climbing posibilities. An early and obvious classic.

The right hand face start (with cheat stones) is one move of 11a sure, but the rest of the climb is 10b/c. Calling it 5.11 really doesn't tell you the difficulty of climbing this route.

Not to quibble about such matters, but a route with a 5.11-move is a 5.11 route. Obviously this isn't as demanding a route as a sustained 5.11 pitch, but such are the limitations of the YDS. A route like O'Kelley's practically begs for the more complicated British grading system where a grade is given for the technical difficulty and then a subjective grade for seriousness, continuousness, etc... (e.g. 6a E4)

Randy/anyone - Wasn't there a climber named O'Kelly? Was this named after/for him?

Don O'Kelley was an early Josh climber who apparantly either aided the route or tried free-climbing the route unsucessfully. There is a picture of him hanging off the route in the old Wolfe guide.

I'd scan it and post it but that would be bogus, so I'll describe it:He's hanging from a swami belt that's pulled up his shirt, staring at the camera looking rather dazed while licking his lips. Looks like he fell along way. There's got to be a story to it, does anyone know?

I liked the old guide, it had a lot more character and heart than the new guides, we could learn a lesson or two from it. Just don't use the F grades!

I recently went back to this route. I think that the direct start up the crack is not that bad - maybe 5.11-, certainly looked better than the crimp start, and who wants to use a cheat stone? Overall I would still give this route 5.11a or 5.11b, starting and climbing the crack via a cuppped hand or fist to the finger locks. Still my vote for best route in the park.

The rating would be 5.10c only if you forget about the first ten feet. I'd rate this 5.11a.

Josh grades were made much clearer to me when someone mentioned their theory that the climbs are rated without the first 10 feet in mind. Sounds like it applies here.

In general I would agree with the statement about ignoring the first 10 feet. But then again, without the first 10 feet, Butterfly Crack at Trashcan Rock would be 5.9 instead of 5.11b or so. Humm....

It seems like a lot of the classics would be 5.9/10a if you forget about the first 10 feet (a few that come to mind are O'kelleys, clean and jerk, perpetual motion, and Red snapper). If it's a two move wonder on the ground or 20 feet up, the route should get a rating that reflects those moves.

You mean the rating should reflect the hardest move? Interesting...

O'Kelley's is one of the premier routes I've ever done anywhere. The rating is just part of the mystique. Also, I think the cheatstone start is in the neighborhood of 10c, at least for a tall person. The direct start is definitely harder.

Finally got on this thing. Stout. Even past the starting couple of moves it felt harder than anything on Wangerbanger. Calling this "hands to the top" after the start is very misleading, it does have a short section of slammer hands, but also fingers, liebacking, face, and a wide move or two. Save some juice for the last bodylength. Best route in the monument? Not even close, but probably in the top 10 and a must-do classic.

Will S: "Best route in the monument? Not even close, but probably in the top 10 and a must-do classic."

I don't know... being in the top 10 out of some 6000 routes is pretty damn good, and I'd say "close".

beware of flakes in and out of the crack system near the top of the climb. they are loose and fragile.

I've been climbing at Josh since the mid-70s and when I first climbed this in the late 70s, everyone seemed to acknowledge that the cheatstone start was the standard start and the standard, FA start was more off a "direct." The varying amounts of chalk on each seemed to confirm that. No one quibbled about the rating either. Everyone I knew just called it .10c, which seemed right with the cheatstones. Nowadays, the harder start appears to have become the standard, hence all the comments about the sandbag rating.

The FA start is .11a or so and kind of size dependent. You have to stick a fist in a flared groove and yard off of it. If you have big meat paws, it sticks fine. If not, it won't. Though I've done Wangerbanger lots of time clean, I've never been able to make that one move on O'Kelly's.

scarpelli showed me how "fist the start" and he sure made it look easy. Of course with paws like his.... Like many Josh routes, the grade does not include the crux !

Even without the first boulder crux, this thing is not 10c. With the boulder problem, 11b/c would be my opinion (with all due admiration to the sandbag ethic of J-Tree).

Industry standard for 5.10c

Awesome climb. There are no cheat stones to stand on, and the start moves are probably burly 11a/b if you're tall, harder otherwise (feels as hard/harder than the 11c pitch on Rostrum and harder than the 11a/11b pitches on it, for example, but sure it's much shorter). I managed to get to the jug on first go but I'm also 6'5", which probably helps (fell on the next moves, which are also not trivial, pumped out)

The rest of the climb is 10c, sure. So either call it 5.10c A0 or 5.11b, but calling it 5.10c makes no sense, unless it is a running joke (as it seems to be). Though hard, the start is very well protected..

But whatever, grades are subjective, who cares.

Being relatively short (5'6" with climbing shoes on) with average sized mitts and fingers (#2 camalot=perfect hands, 3/4"-1"=locker fingers) I found the direct start to be straightforward jamming and not at all height dependent.

Same rating game can be said of the route Hook and Ladder. www.mountainproject.com/v/hook-and-ladder/105723970

Maybe the start is reachy? I lay-backed it with balance, got a perfect finger jam and hit the flat jug, not V3. I also tried Wanger Banger and that felt way harder, hand size dependent it seemed.