Not Your Typical Climber's Car

This is my current vehicle. I'm looking to replace it and decided to use the glory of random opinions to help me. I know there are lots of threads on cars but they're all aimed at the usual suspects.

My Current Death Mobile
Thing is I'm not looking for your standard crag mobile. I'm not living out of my car for months. I like tenting it. This is my daily driver and I drive a lot. So keep your Vanagons, trucks with toppers, and other gypsy vehicles to yourself (jk, I like the idea but that's not what I'm doing with my life right now).

Couple things, I don't want to spend more than 15k. I've already got a mortgage and don't need another huge bill every month. Also, like I said I drive a lot, over 20k miles last year, mostly highway (80%) so gas mileage is very high priority. I do drive off the beaten path every once and a while (10%) but I can get my current vehicle to most of the same places as the Jeeps and Subies with careful driving and chains (Black Velvet trailhead, Turkey Rocks trailhead, etc). Obviously from the dents I need to drive a little slower in the snow. I tend to haul a lot of stuff like skis, rock gear, camping stuff, dog stuff, etc. Sometimes I have several people in my car but usually it's just me. So something I can add a roof/ski rack to would be good. I also don't make a habit of sleeping in the vehicle but being able to have that as a reasonable option every once and a while would be nice so for loading and sleeping I'm thinking fold flat seats. I drive pretty aggressively and I live and play in the mountains so something that won't blow up on a mountain pass is ideal although I've learned if you anticipate the hills the little four bangers do ok. I obviously run cars into the ground and don't want to buy another one for ten years or so which makes low maintenance costs important. I'm mechanically capable but hate working on the car. Actually for all the driving I do I kind of hate driving. My girlfriend says it's because of my little death mobile. Maybe features like heated mirrors and bluetooth would make me less annoyed about driving, never had a car with power anything.

So thoughts, opinions, derisions, etc. I want to be bathed in an overwhelming number of opinions.

VW Golf TDI. Small/Mid sized hatchback, milage in the low/mid 40s per gallon. I love ours. Only problem is the low clearance (we've had to repair the skid plate twice) so it's not going to make it very far on 4x4 roads. If you had the money (which you apparently don't) I would recommend the Toureg TDI.

Haha, so are you saying that what I seek does not exist?

Jon: can you find the TDI's for 15k or less? I've heard not to look at diesels '06 and earlier, care to comment. I was looking at the Passat wagon and that seemed bigger than the Golf with the same mileage.

Toyota Matrix is a good bet. I have a 2005 XR 5-Speed manual and it's been great. Isn't totally gutless but gets appx. 35 miles per gallon. Back seats fold totally flat and has a ton of cargo room and you can definitely sleep in it in a pinch. Toyota makes good cars and it's essentially a corolla in a hatchback. They stopped making matrixes in 2010 or 2011 so you would have to buy used. My 2005 had like 40k miles on it and I got it for 10k.

Honda Fit or Element; Scion XA; Matrix.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Subaru Forester. I'm in almost the same boat as you are - I need a new car, do similar annual miles, lots of climbing and ski trips, frequently move large amounts of crap, etc.

I'm about 85% settled on a Forester. The one thing it doesn't do spectacularly on is gas mileage, on account of the full time AWD. That's the only reason I'm hesitating.

Another option I'm considering is the Hynudai Elantra Wagon. Available in 5 speed manual, well rated by consumer reports, better mileage than the Suby, and most importantly a 10yr, 100K mile warranty. Starting MSRP is only $15,995. Find an '11 still on the lot and you could probably sneak in right around $15K and get a brand new car with that same warranty.

Yeah, I really do like Subarus having driven other peoples. They're nice cars but with a difference of almost $15 per tank of gas to my current vehicle or something like the Matrix. That's gonna be around $1000/year extra for features that I only need occasionally or are just conveniences so I can drive faster (AWD and storage space).

I'm interested to hear more about the diesels as far as maintenance, VW build quality, that sort of thing. I know those engines go a long time but I don't really know anything about them.

So far I think I'm adding the Matrix, and the Elantra onto the list of things to look at. Maybe the Golf if I can find one and learn more about the diesel thing.

91-94 corrola awd wagon. Great clearance and 35mpg.cheap to fix. Best car I ever owned. I am currently looking for one...

Jon H wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Subaru Forester. I'm in almost the same boat as you are - I need a new car, do similar annual miles, lots of climbing and ski trips, frequently move large amounts of crap, etc. I'm about 85% settled on a Forester. The one thing it doesn't do spectacularly on is gas mileage, on account of the full time AWD. That's the only reason I'm hesitating. Another option I'm considering is the Hynudai Elantra Wagon. Available in 5 speed manual, well rated by consumer reports, better mileage than the Suby, and most importantly a 10yr, 100K mile warranty. Starting MSRP is only $15,995. Find an '11 still on the lot and you could probably sneak in right around $15K and get a brand new car with that same warranty.

My 2 cents here:
1. Subaru's are nice, but more expensive to maintain (you must keep the tires aligned and rotated and balanced on a tight schedule, or the AWD will burn out your tires really quickly). They also dont get the best milage in the world. They do very well in snow though. My wife likes ours.

2. IMO, a front wheel drive car is going to get you better gas mileage, and for your purposes, that will probably be your biggest concern. I have had my 97 Nisan Altima for 150k miles, and it has a total of 200k miles on it. For a 4 cylander, it has gone up countless canyons and road trips in Utah, Maine, and Washington. Still hasn't blown up on me. For my next car I'll be looking at another Nissan, but also the standard Accord and Camry. I am interested in the VW clean diesel, but repairing german cars is expensive... so I'm not sure about that route.

jmeizie,
I am currently looking for a commuter car too. I did a lot of research and thought that a VW TDI diesel wagon was going to be the answer. This was not the case. Their vehicles fetch a higher initial cost becuase of the diesel engine. The maintenance costs is where things get interesting. Oil changes cost more due to the filters used. The cost of diesel is more expensive. The maintenance on german vehicles over a ten year period as you mentioned is higher than standard japanese and american vehicles.

This realization led me to the subaru lot where they just came out with a new low end subaru that gets 36 mpg highway. MSRP is $18,000 but expect to be around $20,000 out the door. Payment with zero down and tier one credit is $330 per mo for 6 years. If you can stomach buying a new car at this price then you're ready to go with an all wheel drive wagon with bluetooth and a few amenities.

Let's say that this is too expensive. I feel your pain becuase I also have a mortgage. There are a few wagons out there that are a little cheaper. The toyota matrix is a good choice. There are also a lot of preowned options if you dont mind a used car. Judging by the picture you posted this would not be a problem. You could probably get a really good used subaru for $5,000 that gets low to mid 20's for gas mileage.

Ben B. wrote:...you can find F150s that get 20mpg... the 300i6 is a great fuel efficient,...

Sorry, 20 mpg does not really come in that great when you compare it to a car, which is what the OP is talking about.

i drive a '05 focus 2 door hatchback manual tranny. It handles off road like a champ gets a tad over 30 mpg the way i drive and has been maintenance free except for normal oil change fluid changes tired etc... have 85K on it and still going strong.

I know you said no trucks, but this also goes to anyone else....But I am selling a 95 nissan xe w/topper for at most $1000. 180k miles, 5 speed man, cosmetic dings but runs awesome and has otherwise been great to me. Anyone interested I can send photos, and more info...sorry no information to overwhelm you with on your quest, but good luck!

+1 for Golf TDI! Once I added a steel skid plate, studded snow tires for the winter, and a rocketbox, my TDI does everything I need it to do for climbing. Plus I get 40+ mpg all day.

Yeah, the more I read about diesel the more it's disuading me. Maintenance sounds pretty rough for the newer ones with all the fancy tech.

A friend of mine has a Vibe(disguised Matrix) and it's a nice car. It's kind of at the top of my list.

Does anyone have any experience with the hybrids, Prius, Insight, there are a few of the older models for sale in my price area. I drove to J-tree from Colorado in a Prius. It wasn't bad. Not sure how they handle off the highway or in snow though.

Ben, there's no way I can afford a truck. 20 mpg, I might as well burn $100 bills and club a baby seal while I'm at it. That's like $3000 dollars more a year to spend on a vehicle...no way.

thomas ellis wrote:91-94 corrola awd wagon. Great clearance and 35mpg.cheap to fix. Best car I ever owned. I am currently looking for one...

This is advice you should listen too. Corrola hatch backs are great, and you can probably find one off an older couple that is in great shape. Get a hold of a car broker.

Look at cost of ownership over 5 years or so - if you feel like AWD might be beneficial - get a used Subie Outback or Forester w/ manual trans for ~$10k. I've heard of up to 30MPG hwy isn't hard to achieve. Money saved on initial purchase will buy lots of gas, not to mention the time saved chaining up or slipping around on roads in the future. BUT, getting into the cost of ownership - I'd say make sure you buy a vehicle with a timing chain. With all those miles adding up quickly, 90k t-belt services add up quickly and could eat away gas savings. Most cars have gone back to chains nowadays, but those Subies have belts (excepting the newest versions).

Or Matrix/Vibe for cargo capacity + MPG. Pontiacs depreciate faster so go with one of those over the Toyota twin.

jmeizis, I have been looking into used diesels also. Spend a little time researching the Mercedes models. The 92 to 95 E300s get around 30 MPG (some people claim higher) and last forever. You can find them for between $7K and $10K. Also check out the mid to late 80s non-turbo diesels. These are even more reliable, about the same price and get similar milage. Both models, especially the 80s ones, do very well in collisions. My wife and I are about to have our first child, and for us that is something that is important.

The cool thing that I have found is that many of the owners of these cars are fanatical about their maintenance and have the money to correctly care for them. More often than not, these things are garaged and do not look their age. Also, there are a surprising number of 20 year old "one owner" MBs out there. When looked at from a total cost of ownership perspective, including insurance, depreciation and maintenance, these older MBs are really hard to beat.

Volvo Wagon!!!!! Seriously am I the only one that loves these things? They can fit everything in them. Bikes? No problem! Throw them in. Ski's too? No problem! How bout climbing gear just in case? Oh yeah that fits too. Need to go to the lumber yard? No problem it all fits. Yeah I love mine. 96 850 Turbo wagon. On the highway with conservative driving I get 30+ mpg. In town I get around 20. Most of them come loaded. I never had power anything either, now I have power mirrors, heated seats, sun roof, sport option, winter option, trip computer, blah blah blah. Look for these things!!

Spri wrote: My 2 cents here: 1. Subaru's are nice, but more expensive to maintain (you must keep the tires aligned and rotated and balanced on a tight schedule, or the AWD will burn out your tires really quickly). They also dont get the best milage in the world.

That was certainly true of the older (e.g. early 80's) Subarus, the ones with the transfer case drivetrain. But my current one (2004) is quite different mechanically and I don't think the tire issue is there now. At least I haven't run into it.

My Legacy wagon gets 28 MPG highway on a good day. Never higher though :-(

Yeah, wish Subarus got better gas mileage, but that's the trade for AWD. Matt, I hear you on the belt v. chain thing. Current car has a belt and I don't want to spend the $700 to fix a $200 (in scrap) car. Part of the reason to get rid of it before that belt breaks.

Jonathan and NC, where do you guys look for some of these older cars. Volvo's look nice but I can't find anything. Is that the car broker thing Randy was talking about?