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Chipping in LCC
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May 23, 2009
Bad Sock Puppet
Hey good job Mike. LCC is just as much as a rare gem as is Joe's or Indian Creek. Anyone caught trashing it should have a cam shoved up their ass and thrown off a cliff. Bad Sock Puppet
Joined Jun 22, 2008
595 points
May 24, 2009
Gripped...
John, youre right, one should never intentionally "booty" their own gear. Use the perp's cam. Aimee Bates
Joined Sep 13, 2008
196 points
May 24, 2009
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah
zoso wrote:
Sheees! Pretty big leverage stick eh?




No the big steel sticks didn't work, So we went back to my truck and got the Highlift jack,cable winch and a tow chain.

It was so easy that I want to go back and flip it 360 degrees just for fun.

It was much bigger than it looked in the pictures.
I remember thinking WTF when we got there.

Anybody need a house moved?
mikewhite
Joined Feb 28, 2007
98 points
May 24, 2009
Nice work Mike!! samg
Joined Aug 22, 2006
45 points
May 24, 2009
Me in the Black Canyon.  Checking out a stopper.
Aimee Bates wrote:
John, youre right, one should never intentionally "booty" their own gear. Use the perp's cam.


Aimee, that is the best thing I have ever read on mountain project.
Zac Robinson
From Salt Lake City, UT
Joined Jul 18, 2006
446 points
May 24, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
Aimee Bates wrote:
John, youre right, one should never intentionally "booty" their own gear. Use the perp's cam.

Excellent!
Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Joined Mar 4, 2008
313 points
May 24, 2009
Here are some photos from the SLCA mini-project. Thanks Mike and Kandice for your time and effort.

Before the move.
Before the move.

Moving the rock_1
Moving the rock_1

Moving the rock_2
Moving the rock_2

Moving the rock_3
Moving the rock_3

Finished.
Finished.
Jeff Porucznik
Joined May 24, 2009
65 points
May 24, 2009
Me in the 70's
All right! the car jack. Thanks everyone.

"Anybody need a house moved?"

How about that old tin shack on top of Mt. Timpanogos? I'd love to see that thing go.
bsmoot
Joined Aug 21, 2006
1,867 points
May 25, 2009
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah
bsmoot wrote:
All right! the car jack. Thanks everyone. "Anybody need a house moved?" How about that old tin shack on top of Mt. Timpanogos? I'd love to see that thing go.



If you carry the jack.

Damn thing is heavy.
mikewhite
Joined Feb 28, 2007
98 points
Administrator
May 25, 2009
. . .
you're a good guy mike!
you look like the proud parent of a bouncing baby rock in that last picture.

btw- (people other than mike) if you haven't been taking advantage of the new trail starting at the "sign" parking lot, you should. its been a great and cruiser way to get to crescent crack, the coffin, hong wall, the egg, and everything in between. and while no where is entirely safe from a break-in, the chances are much less given there is more traffic and more frequent canyon patrol in that lower lot.

in case you don't know...the trail begins just north/east of the bathroom and bus stop.
grk10vq
Joined Mar 29, 2006
5,244 points
May 25, 2009
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah
Ya I know the new trail grk, I was there when it was built.
We used it for this project.

mikewhite
Joined Feb 28, 2007
98 points
Administrator
May 25, 2009
. . .
i know you know mike, i was working next to you the whole day.

i hadn't worded that properly, that BTW was more for the masses who still park on the eroding washout and may not know about the new sweet trail action.
grk10vq
Joined Mar 29, 2006
5,244 points
May 26, 2009
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gat...
Good on ya boys. If ya catch the perp, use the car jack on their ass. Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Joined Jul 6, 2007
1,132 points
May 26, 2009
Speaking of the perp, if anyone sees new graffiti in the canyon maybe you could give me a call. Monkey needs help taking inventory.
clay
tenesmus
Joined Jan 7, 2004
2,615 points
Jun 28, 2009
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gat...
This afternoon while out climbing in LCC I found some more "signage". It was on a small rock and was easy to take care of by flipping it over. I will head up again and more permanently take of the offending signage after taking photographs. Before hand though I am going to contact a FS LEO to invite them on a little hike.

The drilled rock signage crap needs to stop. The crags being signed are well established crags. If you are not competent enough to find them you probably should not be in the woods.
Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Joined Jul 6, 2007
1,132 points
Jun 29, 2009
So I think that chiseling things into boulders and rocks is wrong, but maybe we should consider the real issue here. Rock climbing in BCC/LCC has increased massively in the last 5 years. Tons more traffic, and lots more people getting "lost" on the approach to a cliff, especially all the scrub oak junk approaches in LCC. I could see someone thinking that they are doing a service to the climbing community, sort of similar to the Indian Creek plaques (though chiseling in granite is much, much more vandalistic in nature, imo).

I suspect that the demand to find the base of routes has gone up to a point where someone is leaving "signs" to make life easier for themselves. I'm not sure that this problem is going to stop. Maybe it would be better to address the issue by putting a few signposts up at a couple key places (think: the approach to the Thumb)?

Just a thought, it might be more productive.
Pete Spri
Joined Jun 1, 2009
139 points
Jun 29, 2009
Stairway To Heaven - all the way to the Pearly Gat...
While it is true there are more climbers and IF people are unable to find the access trails then there are way better ways to address the perceived problem. The Access Fund and the Salt Lake Climbers Coalition in cooperation with the Forest Service are the best way to address this perceived problem. That said I seriously doubt that the LDS Church would agree to signage on their land given that they do not want to even acknowledge the trails.

However, to me the problem is more indicative of today's society that wants ultra convenience spoon fed experience. The guide books (online and in print) do a very reasonable job of describing the access points. People just need to read them and be willing to follow their nose.
Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Joined Jul 6, 2007
1,132 points
Jun 29, 2009
I was at Tahquitz two weeks ago and the locals had placed a wood post with a carabiner on the top as a marker for the trail up to lunch rock. Great idea, huh, low visual impact, not permanent. Within a week it was gone! Offended someone's sense of tradition, apparently.

Oh well, I liked their approach and think it would work well in LCC at trail junctions. Signage is not a bad thing when well executed. Perhaps in the case of the Egg etc its a good idea. We could at least eliminate the perceived need for chipping.
ddriver
From SLC
Joined Jul 30, 2007
294 points
Jun 29, 2009
Craig Martin wrote:
All this just makes me wonder how we all found the climbing areas in the old days. Oh yeah, I remember now.... we figured it out through the use of guide books, maps and our own experiences. Combine that with a little common sense and there you are at the base. All this talk about chipping and signage to the crags is just sad and embarrasing. Come on sheeple... use your heads.


I recognize I'm an "outsider" in this conversation, but couldn't agree more with you Craig. Sadly, in the days of Mapquest and TomTom, the ability to read a map and actually understand it is lost to many.
usernameremoved
Joined Sep 5, 2007
32 points
Jun 29, 2009
While I agree that we should all be able to track down a wall, the reality is that people are coming up with solutions to getting lost/wasting time hunting a wall down that are less than appealing to all of us on this thread. And regardless of how much we may dislike it or believe that people that are climbing should be responsible enough to do the approach, the reality is that they aren't. I'd rather have some signs as opposed to chiseled out boulders, even if I think that these people shouldn't be climbing. Pete Spri
Joined Jun 1, 2009
139 points
Jun 29, 2009
back on that trail from the "sign" parking lot. is that an easier way to access "the fin?" after being devoured by oak brush for over two hours (hiking up towards thumb and over)the other day. it was too late and we were too spent to climb the damn thing. looked awesome though, can't wait to get back up there (hopefully a diff. way.) thanks for any updated approach info. mase
Joined Jun 29, 2009
0 points
Jun 29, 2009
thanks Craig. i believe that is the trail we intended but definitely missed. I think maybe we were too far east. when i find it, I'll be sure to install some overhead signs with brochure type advertisements saying "fin this way!" "a must climb" "not to be missed raves rolling stone!" mase
Joined Jun 29, 2009
0 points
Jun 29, 2009
  Third bolt on last pitch of cheetah
This sucks, but I think it is just the beginning of something very bad.

Who ever is doing this is not going to stop.

The last thing we want to do is involve the forest service, Unless we have a witness and can have charges filed!!!
mikewhite
Joined Feb 28, 2007
98 points
Jun 29, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat
What if the climbing community were to come up with some kind of "drilling manifesto" that could be distributed with any drills and drill bits that are sold. You would have to get some kind of deal with either the drill makers or the bigger sellers like rei and mountain gear. I'm sure the smaller dedicated climbing shops would easily adopt the plan.

As for electric and gas drills I don't think this would help at all seeing that they probably come from home depot or other hardware store.

I'm not really a driller and can't really guess if these perps are using hand drills or electric/gas but it seems like some kind of education might help remedy the problem. Then again, some people are just idiots and would still do whatever they wanted.
Tyson Anderson
From SLC, UT
Joined May 14, 2007
140 points
Jun 29, 2009
S. Gileadi wrote:
The problem will stop as soon as the person stops. I don't see this as an inevitable consequence of more traffic in these areas. No, I think that most people are perfectly capable of using their heads even if there are more of them. If one moron starts chiseling the rock, as is obviously the case here, there is no need for all of us to throw our hands up in defeat and start posting signs in Little. All that needs to happen is communication- this person simply needs to know that he is bucking the will of the community and endangering access and I think he would be smart enough to know to stop. In any case I don't see how the stupidity of the very few people who would need signposts, still only a potential handful as traffic increases, should make us start dumbing down and creating eyesores in the area. Plus, you know there would always be the special somebody who would go out of his way to take them all down anyway.


Well, if we are realistic about some of the "trails", I would hardly say some of them are obvious. Even a brainiac can get lost on the approach to the Thumb and some other areas less visited. Recognizing that someone/s are taking steps to better mark things is a sign of increased use, and an indication that volume and traffic has increased in the area.

Unfortunately, it is no longer the "old days" where there are only a handful of climbers using the walls in LCC. While it might be nice to reminisce and say that we don't need well marked trails, or that it doesn't really matter, you might simply be overstating things to say that this really isn't necessary. Maybe some better trails and clearing more foilage would be enough to make a need for signposts disappear. Who knows. Apparently signs are a waste since it sounds like most people in this group would simply destroy them. I personally think that in places that I've climbed where signs are used (smith rock, for instance), trails get much better established.

I was simply suggesting a solution that I thought might help, but it seems like most people would rather not recognize that volume has increased and would rather live in the past where all/many climbers shared the same ethics and you didn't have to deal with an increase in the popularity of a sport that has much evolved since when it first began.

Anyhow, I've shared my thoughts, good luck with whatever decision you guys decide to use to tackle this problem.
Pete Spri
Joined Jun 1, 2009
139 points


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