Sorry about the controversial title... I was on Donkey Dong Arete at indian rock in Castle Rock State park yesterday 6/24/08. 3/4 of the way up, there is a very large loose block. The block is necessary for the climb (aka cannot be avoided) and the crux sequence requires one to rely on the block entirely. Basically, the crux move requires pulling hard on the top of the block, effectively levering the block away from the wall. I am convinced that this block will be taking the plunge rather soon, and I think it would be very dangerous if it came off with somebody on it. The climb in its current state is in my opinion dangerous. This is an area classic, and will see traffic. While the block does not "shift", it does vibrate when tapped lightly and one can see the cracks expanding as you pull on it. So the question I am putting to the climbing community is this. Should the Block be glued on so as to preserve the climb and keep it safe? Should it be pulled off, potentially making the rout unclimbable? Should it be left alone, potentially setting it up to come off with somebody clinging to it? Another option I thought of was bolting the block on... seemed a little dumb though. I would be willing to do the work, but I do not want to do something that could threaten access or piss off a bunch of jacked climbers. Let me know what you think!

If I do glue it, what type of epoxy would you suggest. The rock is relatively soft sandstone. Grippy but also sandy. Any suggestions? Ways to clean/primer it?

I would also like to mention that I am generally against rock alteration of any sort. In most cases I would say leave it. However, due to the rout's proximity to the road (easy access), stiff but accessible nature, and pure aesthetic value, The rout will see traffic and could potentially hurt or kill someone. Last detail... the rout is already bolted.

Thanks for the input
Nikolai

It's been like that for over 10 years at least. Just don't climb on it right after it rains, it will probably be good for another 10.

Seriously, I would just leave it be.

I've never climbed at Castle Rock State Park and have not seen the block in person. Consequently, i won't suggest a course of action for this situation.

I would only point out that everyone said the exact same thing about the block on Doub-Grifith. "It had chalk all over it." "It was a part of the route since the FA." It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the guys who were injured when the block pulled on that route.


In my opinion, glue is never an option....period.

I agree with Tom.
Glue is retarded. Having a "classic" glued up makes that just a "glued classic" which in my book is just not that cool.

are you sure the route would not be climbable if the block came out?

I'd contact the person with the FA and go from there.
If the block is scrary enough to warrant this post somthing should maybe be done.

As Tom said. The doub-griffith was the same type of story that could of had a really really bad ending.



By the way.
I hear Chris was climbing in the gym this week.
RIGHT ON DUDE!. that is a fast recovery.

We used to just leave them on and let climbers make a choice on whether to use it or avoid it. These days we pry them off, glue them, Bolt them on. It isn't the end of the world if an old route changes because a potentially deadly block comes off. On the other hand if you want to do the work to keep it on figure out how to do it so it is hard to tell it has been reinforced. Talk to the guys that do that sort of stuff. If you don't know anyone PM me with your # and I can tell you on the phone what I have done.

Features on stone deteriorate over time.
Yesterday, when a buddy of mine mentioned that a flake on the climb he was doing was flexing and loose, I suggested that he should pull it off, to keep the route "fresh".
Nothing gives a tired old line a shot in the arm like pulling off a hold.
If a line is reliant upon a single hold and that hold is of questionable integrity, then perhaps it was an error in judgement to bolt it in the first place.
Sometimes, when a hold is lost, the route is no longer climbable.
So be it.

If anyone wants to go trundle the two bombs off of D7, that would be awesome.

On the one hand, there is always the option of doing nothing about it, But this approach just waits for the inevitable worst case scenario: someone doesn't read about the impending peril on MP.com, or pulls on it in early spring when it's no longer supporting body weight, and an accident happens. The recent accident on Doub-Griffith to me is a perfect example of a problem that had been identified, yet ignored.

Another option, however, is using new facts, and new information, and using it pro-actively to avoid a future catastrophe. That's what we humans do. One of the benefits of a site like MP.com is regular climbers sharing their wisdom about a route, right after climbing it. This beta is a life-saver for those of us that read this site, and dig deep for information about each pitch, in the write-ups as well as comments (not that I'd be able to lead Doub-Griffith....yet!).

But, not everyone is wired, and not everyone reads this site. And also, why write about the impending danger if there's not some avenue to fixing the problem? That's like watching someone lower their girlfriend off a top-rope through a webbing runner and doing nothing, and waiting for the rope to burn through it. Or, waiting for a flake to blow that we all know will change the lives of those below it.

I think being proactive is always better than reacting to a crisis. Therefore I say do something about it. There needs to be some communal avenue to assess the situation, and if bolting a death flake in place is not an easy option (gluing seems a stop-gap measure at best), trundle it and regrade it. But doing nothing is a recipe for disaster.

pry bar.

loose blocks are a hazard, and speeding up geological inevitabilities is, i feel, a method of route-maintenance truer to the rock (and safer) than using glue or a bolt to keep the climb how we might like it to be.

Pry it off, re-lead it, re-grade it, even if you have to work on it for weeks lead it!

Worst case scenario it makes it that much harder and there's nothing wrong with that, right, it's like reverse chipping!

The bottom line of all climbing is to have fun and be safe. With all that said I will probably never climb this thing so maybe someone who will climb it should really comment.