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New route on the hairpin with shiny unpainted hangers?
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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 9, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Anyone know who is putting these things in. There are four new ones with unpainted hangers and I would like to know who it is so I can credit them in the next guidebook and chastise them for not painting those little mirrors.

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By NickMartel
From Tucson, Arizona
Mar 10, 2014
If you are talking about P2 of "Guanica" (P1 are painted), and "Six Bats and a Ringtail Cat" then that was K and I (and we may switch them to painted hangers once Lefthand is in the "off season" so pretty soon here) but I suspect you are talking about something else. Is it 4 new bolts or 4 new routes? Where are they located more specifically?

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By Brent Larsen
From Spearfish, SD
Mar 10, 2014
EBM, 5.11a <br />Sunshine Wall, Spearfish Canyon. <br />South Dakota.
This is a good thread. It makes me not want to be "that guy". I am about to put in bolts on a wall soon. What paint should I buy to paint a bolt and hanger so that it matches up with a classic blonde limestone sort of look? Would a dull yellow work best?

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 10, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Brent Larsen wrote:
This is a good thread. It makes me not want to be "that guy". I am about to put in bolts on a wall soon. What paint should I buy to paint a bolt and hanger so that it matches up with a classic blonde limestone sort of look? Would a dull yellow work best?

I use gray Primer. If you do a couple of thin coats it lasts pretty well unless you are using those shiny Fixes. Stainless will oxidize over time so as the paint begins to disappear they don't shine anyway.

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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Mar 10, 2014
According to the "experts" on Mountain Project if you paint bolt hangers they will corrode and break and yer all going to die. I've been painting and falling on painted hangers for years and by some small miracle I'm still alive.

mountainproject.com/v/anyone-h...

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By Luke Stefurak
From Mountain View, CA
Mar 10, 2014
Below "Inspect Her Gadget" at HP40 after sending it the previous day.
Not me, but I've had bad luck painting hangers.

Eric, what brand of paint do you use? How much dry time between coats?

Thanks!

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By NickMartel
From Tucson, Arizona
Mar 10, 2014
$hit I use those shiny Fixe hangers... :)

I have had reasonable luck with spray paint primer, then a base coat of the desired color, then light coat of another color (light enough to only add speckling to it). Spray paint wont last that long but wears off first on the inside where the biners contact them and by the time it is all gone it is no longer shiny. But recently I have not been painting mine. IDK why not, I am just lazy I guess.

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 11, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
I use Krylon Primer and sometimes the High heat stuff if I can't find the other stuff. I usually paint it then wait 15 minutes or so and slightly depress the button so it spits out a spatter of flat black speckles. I live in AZ which has a humidity level of 7-14 most of the time.

As I said it doesn't last forever but it lasts long enough and allows the shine to dull up on all but the super shiny carbon steel Fixe hangers.

Hey Nick, I thought Mayhew had suggested painting your hangers to minimize the impact.

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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Mar 12, 2014
I use Rustoleum textured paint. You can get it to match just about any rock color.

rustoleum.com/product-catalog/...

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Mar 12, 2014
Stoked...
Brian - I would recommend this actually... but in reality given the expert advice in the previous forum u linked to... climbers really should avoid painting the hangers. Likely won't effect us now but certainly 10+ years from now the issue might rear its head.


rustoleum.com/product-catalog/...

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 12, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Regarding long routes. If they are sparsely bolted I prefer they not have painted hanger as it makes them easier to see. Having said that I would never use shiny carbon steel Fixe hangers in this situation. I prefer to use stainless if at all possible which will dull up en=ven if not painted. My partner buys Carbon now an then so I do use them but only if they have been painted.

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By Brian
From North Kingstown, RI
Mar 12, 2014
Morgan Patterson wrote:
Brian - I would recommend this actually... but in reality given the expert advice in the previous forum u linked to... climbers really should avoid painting the hangers. Likely won't effect us now but certainly 10+ years from now the issue might rear its head. rustoleum.com/product-catalog/...


Morgan, I haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid from the "expert" opinion. Maybe in corrosive salt-water environments sure but I've seen painted hangers in the Northeast for as long as I've been climbing (30 years) and have yet to see, or hear of, one failing because it was painted. All the examples of failed hangers were not related to painting.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Mar 12, 2014
Stoked...
Brian wrote:
Morgan, I haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid from the "expert" opinion. Maybe in corrosive salt-water environments sure but I've seen painted hangers in the Northeast for as long as I've been climbing (30 years) and have yet to see, or hear of, one failing because it was painted. All the examples of failed hangers were not related to painting.



Ya i know.. I'm pretty much with ya on that one! hence my link to the matt camo spray...

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 18, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Climbed this new shiny bolt route and it looks like they used Sleeve bolts. Not always the best choice as last week I pulled some 20 year old 3/8th sleeve bolts out with a 24" crowbar and they came out way too easily.

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By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From Los Alamos, NM
Mar 18, 2014
Climbing at the Belvedere crag near Nago with a great view of the northern end of Lake Garda and the town of Torbole sul Garda below. June 2013.
1Eric Rhicard wrote:
Climbed this new shiny bolt route and it looks like they used Sleeve bolts. Not always the best choice as last week I pulled some 20 year old 3/8th sleeve bolts out with a 24" crowbar and they came out way too easily.

Genuinely interested in the conversation here...20 years is a pretty decent lifespan for those sleeve bolts and it seems this is a good thing as the holes can be re-used with updated bolts (perhaps drilled out more for 1/2") whereas the wedge bolts are in there "for good". These are placements in vertical rock, not horizontal roofs, correct? Using a 24" crowbar to leverage the sleeve bolts is a much different, concerted and repeated tension force versus the typical shear forces from climbing falls (or takes...how many people actually go for it and fall anymore!)
Assuming (I know, that's not a good word) the holes were cleaned out well, I'd give the nod to the sleeve bolts. But I've not climbed or bolted where this route is located so take this comment FWIW.

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By J Achey
Mar 18, 2014
Make sure the hangers are oil-free before you paint them, by ragging them off with acetone or paint thinner. A dull yellow/tan ("Sand") works well for the limestone in my area. Several very thin coats, just enough to cover, and it really helps to mist irregularly with a second color, like black, brown, gray primer, or "anodized bronze," rather than use any single color. I end up with a range of color mixes in my bag, from sand to half-and-half to near-black, and pick one that matches the placement. But that's the sign of a true geek.

With stainless hangers available for just around $2 and 3/8 SS wedge bolts even less than that, even you AZ guys really should consider going all stainless. It's pretty cheap insurance. Pretty shocking what failure analysts have discovered recently about the microclimates inside bolt holes. Your application isn't as dry as you think, and minerals tend to concentrate over time.

RE painting stainless, it's true that painting will impair the formation of new protective oxides on surfaces, but for dry climates, on a hanger that's already properly oxidized, this probably isn't worth worrying about. Don't, however, get paint on threads that will be down in a bolt hole.

Amazing the routes land managers and nature-lovers don't even notice, when hangers are painted. Not that it's illegal to bolt most places, yet, but just sayin' ...

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By J Achey
Mar 18, 2014
And +1 for sleeve bolts, but they, especially, should be stainless (if you want a prayer of getting them out easily), and also 1/2", which makes them quite pricey ...

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By Eric Sophiea
Mar 19, 2014
Licking the cat with googly-eyes.
I appreciate EFR's thoughts that a 20 year lifespan isn't really that great....

How many bolts have you put on Mt. Lemmon in the last 20 years, Eric? You should probably start the scheduled replacement of all of them soon so you can get on top of that job! ;)

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 20, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
The bolts we removed on Triangulate across the canyon were 3/8th sleeve bolts. To be fair we loosened the nut, tapped the shaft in to disengage the sleeve, then pried on the back of the hammer. There was a little bit of rust but as we pried the wedge was pulled pack into the sleeve. It also may be that the holes were too big as I could not use the old bolt holes with new 3/8th bolts.

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 20, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Hey Jeff, what is with the +^^^ for sleeve bolts? I have occasionally used half inch in softer rock but when they started failing in some limestone around here I stopped using them.

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By 1Eric Rhicard
Mar 20, 2014
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Hey Eric, the replacement had begun. I have 40 ASCA bolts sitting in my shed right now. I am doing it. 5 piece stainless that should last 50 years and be removable. Until we come up with a better alternative this is what I will do.

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By J Achey
Mar 22, 2014
Eric - Maybe the engineering types should chime in here, but the weight-bearing shaft on 3/8" sleeve bolts is only 5/16, which in my mind is just not sufficient for lead-climbing protection that should last 20, 50 years. Around here we use 3/8" SS sleeve for economical new-routing, 1/2" SS Powers sleeves (sometimes non-stainless, but that's phasing out) for more grip in softer limestone, and either 1/2" SS wedge or Wave Bolt SS glue-ins for top-end longevity.

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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Mar 23, 2014
Toofast
1Eric Rhicard wrote:
Hey Eric, the replacement had begun. I have 40 ASCA bolts sitting in my shed right now. I am doing it. 5 piece stainless that should last 50 years and be removable. Until we come up with a better alternative this is what I will do.


Those ASCA 1/2" sleeve bolts are awesome. It is fantastic how that organization has provided so much top notch hardware for replacement.

In the arid climate here those bolts will last a very long time. And as Eric mentioned, they will be replaceable down the road.

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