New gear for 2014

Has anyone used the pro traxion or X4 offsets? If you have read about them I have no interest in hearing about it.

X4 Offsets are not for sale yet so I don't think many people have used them yet. Maybe just a few product developers/testers.

That's who I'm hoping would reply,

I also would be interested to hear what others think of them. I own a couple of the X4's and they are great to use, but I am unsure about the X4's Offsets. Of course they look great, but they seem highly specialized. At $70/each I am not convinced yet to spend the extra money or carry the extra weight.

I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for BD to produce offsets. There's numerous instances in LCC (where they're often testing) where offsets fit a lot better than standard cams. So many flaring ass-cracks.

REI in Boulder has the BD offsets.

Garret Nuzzo-Jones wrote:I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for BD to produce offsets. There's numerous instances in LCC (where they're often testing) where offsets fit a lot better than standard cams. So many flaring ass-cracks.

Typically BD is always behind releasing new equipment compared to other manufacturers. Metolious has had offsets available for a while now. I think it is in part because BD likes to go through a thorough R&D process rather than just releasing a product to be first. They want it to the best. They still haven't released their avalanche air bag packs yet, years behind BCA.

I got the chance to use the X4 offsets last year on the Coffin in LCC. They are what you would expect from BD, quality product. I like how the different sizes are identified by mixed colors. The range is great and they place well. Not sure what else to say. I guess I like them a little more than metolius offsets for the same reasons I like X4s more than mastercams.

Joseph

bmagee13 wrote: Typically BD is always behind releasing new equipment compared to other manufacturers. Metolious has had offsets available for a while now. I think it is in part because BD likes to go through a thorough R&D process rather than just releasing a product to be first. They want it to the best. They still haven't released their avalanche air bag packs yet, years behind BCA.

Rather they had to stop and refill the paper tray in the photocopier.

Brad M wrote: Rather they had to stop and refill the paper tray in the photocopier.

el o el. They remind me of Microsoft trying to catch with Apple, always are too little too late, coming up with clunky wannabe products. Might as well give up and start buying proven tech, PIEPS for example. Hopefully I can still get tech support and software updates for my beacon...

Brad M wrote: Rather they had to stop and refill the paper tray in the photocopier.

Not sure I agree with this. All popular BD hating aside, I think their products aren't copies of anything but rather their version of a device that simply can't have that much variance in design. Seriously, there are only so many ways to join 4 cams to a stem, add a trigger etc etc. Each brand has their variations but in all seriousness, HOW does one think BD would make a narrow head, off width cam that's 100% "new" from all the rest.

X4s have stacked axels, their own way of joining trigger to upper cams, a better sewn sling design yadda yadda. Only so many ways to skin a cat.

Honestly, with a few exceptions, I prefer that companies refine and improve on tested and known designs rather than go way out an "innovate" simply to avoid "copying". It's fairly RARE that true innovation occurs and often, when attempted there are "gotchas" that make it innovation with caveats.

Totem Cams are likely the only innovation that's come with few if any gotchas. Link Cams, Max Cams, Splitter Cams etc all have gotchas that limit their implementation. Same goes for most belay devices etc.

Especially ironic since the reason the JetForce avi packs (commented on above) aren't out yet is that they are a blank slate design, that on paper seems to have some pretty distinct advantages.

Having never used them, I would imagine that Totem cams (not the basic-aliens), would be far more useful than X4 offsets. Small head width, protect flaring cracks like offsets, expansion range of C4/X4, but are also "normal" (non-offset) cams. Their main negatives are bulk on your rack and cost. $10 more than an X4 isn't that costly, though.

Totems protect vertical flares. Offsets protect pin scar style flares. Two different things. Also X4s cover smaller sizes than Totems.

as a totem owner and user... they so do protect pin scars and outward flares.they do so as well or better than offset master cam's or TCU's. I will expect them to outperform offset X4's as well

mattm wrote: Not sure I agree with this. All popular BD hating aside, I think their products aren't copies of anything but rather their version of a device that simply can't have that much variance in design. Seriously, there are only so many ways to join 4 cams to a stem, add a trigger etc etc. Each brand has their variations but in all seriousness, HOW does one think BD would make a narrow head, off width cam that's 100% "new" from all the rest. X4s have stacked axels, their own way of joining trigger to upper cams, a better sewn sling design yadda yadda. Only so many ways to skin a cat. Honestly, with a few exceptions, I prefer that companies refine and improve on tested and known designs rather than go way out an "innovate" simply to avoid "copying". It's fairly RARE that true innovation occurs and often, when attempted there are "gotchas" that make it innovation with caveats. Totem Cams are likely the only innovation that's come with few if any gotchas. Link Cams, Max Cams, Splitter Cams etc all have gotchas that limit their implementation. Same goes for most belay devices etc.

A lot of BD's designs are considered industry standards today. How do you like your wiregate caribiners?

i thought the Pro wire by DMM was the first wire gate?

Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:i thought the Pro wire by DMM was the first wire gate?

No, it was the Black Diamond Hotwire.

Aren't the BD Fuel tools coming out this year also?

Khoi wrote: No, it was the Black Diamond Hotwire.

I can't recall if I read this or was told this but the story was BD was also working on the neutrino around the same time but decided that the wire gate was radical enough on it's own that marketing the Neutrino SIZE and Wire Gate would have been a loosing battle at the time so they opted for the Hotwire first.

mattm wrote: I can't recall if I read this or was told this but the story was BD was also working on the neutrino around the same time but decided that the wire gate was radical enough on it's own that marketing the Neutrino SIZE and Wire Gate would have been a loosing battle at the time so they opted for the Hotwire first.

How was the wire gate received by the climbing industry and community when it was first released? And what year was that (before my time, in any case). Was there a lot of skepticism at first, or did people recognize its brilliance from the beginning?