Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
New DMM belay devices
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
Jul 10, 2014
dmmclimbing.com/news/2014/07/n...



The latest belay devices are a result of meticulous research and design to cater for modern belaying techniques with modern ropes.

Pivot – Multi-use lightweight belay device. Innovative pivot gives optimum performance both belaying from the harness and direct from the anchor.

Mantis – Super lightweight classic belay device made better for use with either single or half-ropes where direct belaying is not required.

Grip – Revolutionary single rope belay device. Clever mechanics are behind the Grip’s startling holding power.


;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points
Jul 10, 2014
profile
The Grip looks really weird. Not sure I can tell what's going on from just the pictures...


Grip
Grip
john l.
From Westchester, NY
Joined May 1, 2012
396 points
Jul 10, 2014
Bearbreeder,

Are you going to obtain one of these and do a review here at the MP? I belive many of us here would appreciate your input.

Looks like I need to make space in the gear room, but I'm a whore for techy-type-thingamabobs and love the mechanics of all types of gizmos. I collect stuff - sue me! :)



BigFeet
From Texas
Joined May 5, 2014
282 points
Jul 10, 2014
Mt Minsi, PA
bearbreeder, aren't you a big fan of the mammut smart? what do you think of the alpine up? I was looking at one in the climbing shop the other day, guy at the counter swears by it. I'm an ATC/GriGri2 man myself. Not looking for the next fancy new thing, but can appreciate innovation and new ideas if they're worth something. Michael C
From New Jersey
Joined Jun 9, 2011
306 points
Jul 10, 2014
As a general rule, I like DMM's stuff.

Trying to figure out comparisons to products I'm more familiar with:

Pivot = ATC Guide that somehow provides for easy lowering?

Mantis = ATC XP? (I don't see any difference from the picture.)

And like John, I can't tell what's going on with the Grip.
michaelp
Joined Apr 28, 2013
70 points
Jul 10, 2014
john l. wrote:
The Grip looks really weird. Not sure I can tell what's going on from just the pictures...


It looks pretty similar to an ATC, but when loaded and the rope strands are pulled apart (eg. climber and brake sides) it splits open, causing the side closest to the biner to close and pinch down on the rope/biner. I'd expect it to operate the same way as an ATC but just with a bit more stopping power. At least that's what I'm guessing...

As for the Pivot, I wonder how much of a difference that pivot point actually makes (vs Reverso or ATC Guide) when belaying direct off the anchor. You'd think the fact that it's connected to a more-or-less circular biner would give it enough "pivot" room to begin with, no?
Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Jul 10, 2014
I probably wont get one of these ... I got enough smarts to last me a few years !!!

As to the alpine up ... Ive only used the clickup so can only speak to that

The click up has the most natural belaying position of any assisted locking device ... More so than the smart

Its basically just like belaying with an atc except when you need to unclick it or lower

For a gym or cragging environment it works well

The problem in canuckistan is that its not widely available and cost decently more than a smart

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points
Jul 10, 2014
profile
Ian Stewart wrote:
It looks pretty similar to an ATC, but when loaded and the rope strands are pulled apart (eg. climber and brake sides) it splits open, causing the side closest to the biner to close and pinch down on the rope/biner. I'd expect it to operate the same way as an ATC but just with a bit more stopping power. At least that's what I'm guessing... As for the Pivot, I wonder how much of a difference that pivot point actually makes (vs Reverso or ATC Guide) when belaying direct off the anchor. You'd think the fact that it's connected to a more-or-less circular biner would give it enough "pivot" room to begin with, no?



Ah, thanks. I thought that it would split, but that would result in the bend being straightened. I didn't notice the part that pinches on the two sides of the rope. Makes sense now.

I agree about the pivot.
john l.
From Westchester, NY
Joined May 1, 2012
396 points
Jul 11, 2014
swagging
I'm pretty sure that the "Grip" was designed by the sentient computer system Skynet The Blueprint Part Dank
From FEMA Region VIII
Joined Jun 21, 2013
267 points
Jul 12, 2014
BigFeet wrote:
Bearbreeder, Are you going to obtain one of these and do a review here at the MP? I belive many of us here would appreciate your input. Looks like I need to make space in the gear room, but I'm a whore for techy-type-thingamabobs and love the mechanics of all types of gizmos. I collect stuff - sue me! :)


Iīll be getting them to test soon, the Grip is still in pre-production though.
The Mantis is just a clssic plate, it should perform well but we shall see!
The Pivot works well, the force you need to lower is noticeably reduced and the Vee-slots are better formed to reduce the swapping over the strands under high load which is the downfall of a lot of guide plates.
The Grip is sort-of good, the increased holding power is really noticeable at least at normal loads (I wasnīt able to put it under high loads today). The two halves are held together by magnets to stop the increased power engaging under normal paying in and out but with any real force the halves seperate and the spring/retainer loop takes over. Itīs big problem is that you canīt make a two-rope version as the pivot makes it too wide for any normal karabiner.

Also new was the Camp Matik (matix?) which is a Grigri/Eddy type thing. Somehow I just didnīt want one, it seemed heavy and crude somehow and had an anti-panic function which I donīt want. Be interesting to see if the claimed low impact force translates into it slips a lot!
The Edelrid Jul has turned into a single-rope MegaJul, the demo of it locking up hands-free was a notable failure.
The Trango Cinch is rumoured to be re-designed, not before time methinks.
Jim Titt
From Germany
Joined Nov 10, 2009
195 points
Jul 13, 2014
Jim,

Thanks for the info. I look forward to any other specifics on longevity and failure issues you may come across.

Pertaining to the Grip, I was wondering about the pivot point and bearing. It appears to be internally sealed an not accessible. Would anyone know if this is the case? Just wondering on protection of moving surfaces in relation to dirt/grit/whatnot. Could this device be rendered inoperable or inconsistent in operation?

Interesting device to be sure, for I would like to get my hands on one to test out. I have a few questions and would like to satisfy them with my own hands-on application.

Keep us updated on the new a cool guys. Thanks!
BigFeet
From Texas
Joined May 5, 2014
282 points
Jul 14, 2014
camp matrix
camp matrix


for larger pic go here

mountainproject.com/images/42/...

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points
Jul 14, 2014
Matik would be interesting if it proves to be a) as reliable as a Grigri (ie more than the Smart etc) and b) actually has lower impact forces. Can you disengage the cam easily on belay to feed rope fast like with a Grigri?

How do you lower or rappel with the Grip once the rope is weighted? Do you have to pinch the sides together in your palm? No guide mode either. Meh. Cool for single pitch I guess.

I'll stick with a Grigri for now.
jdejace
Joined Sep 20, 2013
6 points
Jul 14, 2014
Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakn...
Jim Titt wrote:
The Edelrid Jul has turned into a single-rope MegaJul, the demo of it locking up hands-free was a notable failure.


Any of video of this? This news is surprising to me. I have been using the MegaJul for months without a bit of slippage even. Then again I've been using a 10.5 rope. Do you know what size rope the demo used?
Antonio Caligiuri
From Bishop, CA
Joined Oct 24, 2013
141 points
Jul 14, 2014
Looks like when you brake hard the grip 'splits' in two and both bottom corners clamp against the Biner. It has magnets in it, maybe that holds the top part together when it's not arresting a fall. The pivot device looks like a safer way of lowering, requiring less force to overcome the lock off device so the initial release won't be so fast and dramatic.

I'm interested in both for sure.
Jon Rhoderick
Joined Jul 21, 2009
547 points
Jul 14, 2014
Planet Earth- throwing to the slopes
What is the deal with the 'catch' (?) in the picture? the one with the handle? JD Borgeson
Joined Apr 10, 2013
175 points
Jul 14, 2014
JD Borgeson wrote:
What is the deal with the 'catch' (?) in the picture? the one with the handle?


Thatīs what was the Buddy but with a lowering handle, itīs an industrial fall arrest product.
Jim Titt
From Germany
Joined Nov 10, 2009
195 points
Jul 14, 2014
Antonio Caligiuri wrote:
Any of video of this? This news is surprising to me. I have been using the MegaJul for months without a bit of slippage even. Then again I've been using a 10.5 rope. Do you know what size rope the demo used?


You mean you donīt hold the brake rope when youīre belaying?
Jim Titt
From Germany
Joined Nov 10, 2009
195 points
Jul 14, 2014
Me
Jim Titt wrote:
You mean you donīt hold the brake rope when youīre belaying?


Can't speak for him, but with my Smart I like to leave an inch or two of slack on the brake strand and watch how it catches falls. Does it suck up the slack and then lock? Does it lock on its own, leaving the brake strand to my hand loose?
Patrick Shyvers
From Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jul 16, 2013
11 points
Jul 14, 2014
BigFeet wrote:
Pertaining to the Grip, I was wondering about the pivot point and bearing. It appears to be internally sealed an not accessible. Would anyone know if this is the case? Just wondering on protection of moving surfaces in relation to dirt/grit/whatnot. Could this device be rendered inoperable or inconsistent in operation?


I doubt there are any bearings in there; it's most likely just an oversized metal-on-metal pin/rivet/whatever you want to call it. I don't think it would be any more susceptible to failure than the pivot points on any other belay device.
Ian Stewart
Joined May 17, 2010
166 points
Jul 14, 2014
Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakn...
Jim Titt wrote:
You mean you donīt hold the brake rope when youīre belaying?


No, never. We usually just tie it to a tree with an old piece of webbing. Of course I hold the brake end, but it always catches without much "braking" on my part. And it holds without slippage if I'm not holding tightly. That's why I was curious to see some footage of the tests/demos.
Antonio Caligiuri
From Bishop, CA
Joined Oct 24, 2013
141 points
Jul 14, 2014
Rock wars, Red River Gorge
More gear report here, including new belay devices:
hikinginfinland.com/2014/07/ou...
shoo
Joined Aug 9, 2010
74 points
Jul 14, 2014
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
So many what I just call 'rip offs' of the basic ATC,,,which was just an upgrade from the 70's Sticht plate device....so many of the new shapes of an ATC just end up binding and not feeding well, or stick when you try to haul in rope,,I've tried probably at least 15 different devices and have found most to just be a waste of money....an ATC is always fine,,and my 'assisted' lock is the 'Click=up' device,,i love that thing,,way better than the Smart. Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,091 points
Jul 16, 2014
dennisvanhoek.nl/?p=1929



and new fix aliens



;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points
Jul 16, 2014
At the matching crux
The CAMP Matik you posted above looks super interesting. I've never been satisfied with the a GriGri (1 or 2) and while I liked the Cinch, it was never 100% confidence inspiring.

The Matik (claims to) solve both those problems. We'll see how it actually turns out. Any idea when it will be available?
Jon H
From Boulder
Joined Nov 24, 2009
98 points
Jul 16, 2014
Jon H wrote:
The CAMP Matik you posted above looks super interesting. I've never been satisfied with the a GriGri (1 or 2) and while I liked the Cinch, it was never 100% confidence inspiring. The Matik (claims to) solve both those problems. We'll see how it actually turns out. Any idea when it will be available?


spring 2015

275g

~ 100 euros in euroland


translate.google.ca/translate?...

translate.google.ca/translate?...

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
2,153 points


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Beyond the Guidebook:
The Definitive Climbing Resource
Inspiration & Motivation
to Fuel Your Run
Next Generation Mountain
Bike Trail Maps
Backcountry, Sidecountry
& Secret Stashes
Better Data. Better Tools.
Better Hikes!