New Crash Pad Company

I'm thinking about starting an independent crash pad company. Something that would be focused on utility; not fancy covers and features. Just bomber, affordable, comfortable and reliable. Still, I want input.

What's the best crash pad out right now?
What's missing in the market?
Are features really important and if so, which ones?
What's the ideal size?
Firm or soft?

Please discuss

Yacov wrote:I'm thinking about starting an independent crash pad company. Something that would be focused on utility; not fancy covers and features. Just bomber, affordable, comfortable and reliable. Still, I want input. What's the best crash pad out right now? What's missing in the market? Are features really important and if so, which ones? What's the ideal size? Firm or soft? Please discuss

The company to beat is Organic, mostly because they stole your business model and elected to build their pads around the best foam they could find.

Yeah, I figured Organic is the model company. They just seem awfully expensive.

I personally think Misty Mountain is the best pad. Very bomber. Heavy stitching and nice slip free cover. Tried an Organic last weekend and wanted to throw it in the ditch. No matter what you do, don't put velcro on the top hinge of the straps. Metolius did this and now Organic. Terrible design. To each his own. Good luck.
PS: Black Diamond has great foam but the larger pads are poorly thought out in terms of size.

What does "independent" mean in this context?
Any product other than crash pads?
Ever run a business?
Any idea how little money you will actually make?
Any idea how many crash pads on the market?
Any distribution channels?
Any idea how you will source the materials?
Own an industrial sewing machine and know how to use it efficiently?

Since you're "researching" on MP, I'd wager the answer is you have no idea what is involved, or anything else for that matter. Keep on pipe-dreaming though, you too can be a Capt of Industry making a commodity good.

To WillS
Are you a dick?
Have you ever had an idea that everyone knocked down?
Have you ever been called a killjoy?
Have you ever read the the terms of MP about being respectful?

Yacov wrote: What's the best crash pad out right now? What's missing in the market? Are features really important and if so, which ones? What's the ideal size? Firm or soft? Please discuss

I'm surprised you didn't ask what the best color is. Don't you think you should know the answers to these through experience before starting a company making crash pads?

thomas ellis wrote:To WillS Are you a dick? Have you ever had an idea that everyone knocked down? Have you ever been called a killjoy? Have you ever read the the terms of MP about being respectful?

Reality is going to be far harsher than Will was.

I agree that this is a long shot, but I think a real innovation would be some form of inflatable crashpad that could be packed into a smaller space than traditional crashpads. This would make airline travle much easier, and encourage carpooling, as well as make long approaches easier. The tecnhical challenges would be remote inflation, getting the pressure right and absorbing the impacts without rupturing. It would be a great undergrad Senior Design project or Master's thesis for an engineering design student.

Yacov wrote:Yeah, I figured Organic is the model company. They just seem awfully expensive.

I think you should try to source high quality foam and fabrics and figure out how much the materials would cost you produce a pad. I think you'll be surprised how much foam costs. I just paid $40 for enough foam to redo 4 chairs and that was really cheap, open cell stuff.

Once you figure out raw materials, factor in labor costs and figure out if you can truly undercut the established companies.

Anyway, crashpads are essentially simple products, but they do require expensive materials. Add to that the labor costs for an expereinced upholstery seamstress, heavy duty sewing machines, advertising and marketing costs, and a workspace.

Just crunch the numbers, and then decide if you can realistically do this. If you can, go for it.

As far a products not being met, I think you should size you pads and create special links so that they can be linked to make a mattress. TONS of boulderers sleep on their pads. My two pads always seperate in the middle of the night and they're a little short.

Evan

The big mad rock 3 fold one is sick cuz you can use it as a comfy sleeping pad. Same with the huge metilious one.

The regular mad rock one is sick too, just cuz its big and cheap.

Firm is way better than soft.

Mike Anderson wrote:I agree that this is a long shot, but I think a real innovation would be some form of inflatable crashpad that could be packed into a smaller space than traditional crashpads. This would make airline travle much easier, and encourage carpooling, as well as make long approaches easier. The tecnhical challenges would be remote inflation, getting the pressure right and absorbing the impacts without rupturing. It would be a great undergrad Senior Design project or Master's thesis for an engineering design student.

Self-inflating ala Thermorest pads would be the ticket. Only with much more of an expansion factor, which would require some inventing/engineering.
Or figure out how to make effective pads from hemp/medicinal by-products.

Mike Anderson wrote:I agree that this is a long shot, but I think a real innovation would be some form of inflatable crashpad that could be packed into a smaller space than traditional crashpads. This would make airline travle much easier, and encourage carpooling, as well as make long approaches easier. The tecnhical challenges would be remote inflation, getting the pressure right and absorbing the impacts without rupturing. It would be a great undergrad Senior Design project or Master's thesis for an engineering design student.

Getting the pressure 'right' won't do it. Air isn't compressible enough to provide the kind of cushion you want when coming down from 15 feet - or 4 for that matter. It'd have to have a way of releasing the air pressure upon contact, into a bladder or something - kind of how the big fireman catch pads are. Seems really complicated on first thought to me, but perhaps a simple outside the box solution exists.

Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote: I think you should try to source high quality foam and fabrics and figure out how much the materials would cost you produce a pad. I think you'll be surprised how much foam costs. I just paid $40 for enough foam to redo 4 chairs and that was really cheap, open cell stuff. Once you figure out raw materials, factor in labor costs and figure out if you can truly undercut the established companies. Anyway, crashpads are essentially simple products, but they do require expensive materials. Add to that the labor costs for an expereinced upholstery seamstress, heavy duty sewing machines, advertising and marketing costs, and a workspace. Just crunch the numbers, and then decide if you can realistically do this. If you can, go for it. As far a products not being met, I think you should size you pads and create special links so that they can be linked to make a mattress. TONS of boulderers sleep on their pads. My two pads always seperate in the middle of the night and they're a little short. Evan

A linking system sounds interesting. Doesn't Mad Rock use Velcro to do something similar? Perhaps a four-piece pad that could be carried together but have configuration options. That would be quite thick for carrying though. Hmmm.

I have had a lot of crash pads in my day. I do really like the organic pads for there forever lasting foam and cool designs. A friend of mine got a chalk bucket and a pad with the same design on both which was pretty cool. I don't like velcro on my pads. The velcro always seems to wear out and all the sewn straps on my bd impact pad have also blown out. Bd pads are really a pile. The foam wore out after a year. The pad is now just a soft spot to sit on and brush my climbing shoes off on before I start climbing. If I was to take a real fall on it, I would probably hurt myself.

I think for a new pad company, just make sure all the straps, fabrics, pockets, and foam are bomber. Don't make your equipment to wear out so people are having to buy new pads all the time. Use a foam that an avid climber could enjoy for at least a couple of years. If there is way to make it affordable that will be marketable in itself. Climbing gear is really expensive these days and it would be nice to buy something new without stressing out about the price of everything.

I primarily boulder so I have wasted a lot of time thinking of "a better pad". I prefer a single piece pad (or no hinge pad) because you eliminate the potential ankle twisting hinge in the middle. I like the idea of two or three piece designs. Maybe one large single piece with a "floater" piece equal to 1/2 of the larger. Make it easy to carry and possibly attachable. The same goes for a three piece system. I also played with the idea of "OFF" shaped floating pads for those of us that play in talus. In my opinion there is plenty of room for improvement especially as bouldering is only becoming more and more popular.

I've been looking into a new pad for a while and this thread has really sparked my interest. I would love to find a 6'x4' tri-fold taco style pad a la the Misty pads but bigger. Maybe it's silly, but I would really like to be able to fit on my pad laying down as I sleep on crash pads more often than my thermorest. Ideally it would have a hook and strap closure like the mad pads, and the one thing they did right there was make it so you could set it up like a crazy creek. Something that might be cool would be to have the backpack straps be on the side you'd land on but have them be removable as well so they don't trip you up. Just my .02

I don't own a crash pad of my own (left it in Germany when I moved) but I would love to buy another when I have the money which leads me an issue. I find it hard to believe that foam, a cover, and some straps cost over $100 but that's just me. Even with the labor of sewing the cover on it shouldn't cost that much. The next time I go out and buy a pad I will be looking for soft foam, a good price, and durability and that's about it.

Top of the line open-cell foam for a 3X5X5 is roughly $35. Closed cell is a little more. Makes you wonder why pads cost so much.

I'm thinking of doing two lines. All foam and air/foam. The idea being all foam for an economically driven climber who wants a classic quality pad. The air/foam would be a compressible pad so transport would be easier and that you could take on a flight. I'm going to work on some ideas this weekend.

Mike Anderson wrote:I agree that this is a long shot, but I think a real innovation would be some form of inflatable crashpad that could be packed into a smaller space than traditional crashpads. This would make airline travle much easier, and encourage carpooling, as well as make long approaches easier. The tecnhical challenges would be remote inflation, getting the pressure right and absorbing the impacts without rupturing. It would be a great undergrad Senior Design project or Master's thesis for an engineering design student.

http://flashed.com/mats/ronin/

Yacov, I have a couple of friends looking into making pads and other minor climbing gear, and they have researched using recycled materials to keep cost down as well as trying to be more of a "green" company. Check with outdoor equipment manufacturers to see if you can pick up unwanted materials, returns, warrantee's, repairs, etc.