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New BD cams - rumor?
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By Dave Cummings
From Grand Junction, CO
Jul 26, 2012
me on my redpoint
They look amazing, I know Ill get some when them come out that is for sure

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jul 27, 2012
Middle
Jake Jones wrote:
I still don't get it. Why not go with offsets or something they basically don't already cover with solid products? Just seems gimicky and competing with Aliens and Masters for the sake of competing.


Indeed, what are they thinking going to market with a product that is in the same category as their competitors. The nerve of BD, it's like they're trying to sell a product to their customers or something.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 27, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Indeed, what are they thinking going to market with a product that is in the same category as their competitors. The nerve of BD, it's like they're trying to sell a product to their customers or something.


Hahaha. Yeah, I know. I get what you're saying. I guess I would have liked to see them be a bit more bold/innovative. Say... like a #7. A big, fat, red #7. Or some offsets with slightly tapered lobes or something. You know? Wtf do I know? I just plug the shit. I would probably even get a few if I didn't already have multiples in those sizes.

I wonder though if this line will go up into the hand and fist sizes... Ok Ray. No more corporate bashing from me.

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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Jul 27, 2012
Aric Datesman wrote:
(Pic David.Jones linked to:) My god... David.Jones, I hadn't even hoped for getting a pic like that! Thanks!!!! Looks like the springs bear on a groove in the axle, just like Aliens. And are similar to the springs Totem is trying to get to work for the really small ones. And the trigger beads are cosmetic and simply ride around a Alien-style nylon sheath. So many answers in that pic...


Is anyone else bothered that the stem in the parts isn't the same as the one on the cam? Look at the aluminum piece with the BD logo. Also, why no plastic sleeve or sling shown?

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By Larry S
Jul 27, 2012
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
DannyUncanny wrote:
Is anyone else bothered that the stem in the parts isn't the same as the one on the cam? Look at the aluminum piece with the BD logo. Also, why no plastic sleeve or sling shown?


That's because they're not swaged to the cable yet.

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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Jul 27, 2012
Larry S wrote:
That's because they're not swaged to the cable yet.

ah, I guess that would explain the head piece too.

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By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Jul 29, 2012
Thanks Hank Caylor!

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By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Jul 29, 2012
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012
what the fuck does choreographed dancing have to do with outdoor clothing?

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jul 29, 2012
Middle
Keenan Waeschle wrote:
what the fuck does choreographed dancing have to do with outdoor clothing?


Probably nothing but if you want people to stick around for four days straight you have to give them a mental break from whatever it is they are there to see. Trade shows are exhausting and most people are their in a professional capacity, if it isn't fun for the attendees and profitable for the vendors no one will want to pay to come back.

ETA: I thought you were talking about something the convention organizers were doing. I assume Norrona was just putting on a show to get people interested. Kinda awkward feeling in the video.


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By Josh Kornish
From Missoula, MT
Jul 29, 2012
The Roach
75 Euros for a cam....

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By APBT1976
Jul 29, 2012
Black Dike 12/25/11
Josh Kornish wrote:
75 Euros for a cam....


Feaking nuts!!!

Life just keeps getting more and more expensive and thus harder and harder to maintain.

Why because for the most part the majority continually insists on re inventing the wheels. And if they can not reinvent it they insist on re releasing the newly revamped wheel in the most up to date fashionable colors..

Sure at some point even i will be suckered into buying a cam for 75 euro

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jul 29, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
LMAO. 75 Euro? That's 92 dollars. For that price BD you can take those cams and find great range in a placement up your ass. I'll stick with my single axles. Fucking crazy.

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Jul 29, 2012
IF Black Diamond's MSRP for these Camalot X4's will be over $85 in the U.S./Canada then the people over at Fixe will probably be sending them hand written THANK YOU! cards.

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By APBT1976
Jul 29, 2012
Black Dike 12/25/11
Khoi wrote:
IF Black Diamond's MSRP for these Camalot X4's will be over $85 in the U.S./Canada then the people over at Fixe will probably be sending them hand written THANK YOU! cards.


Yup!!!

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 29, 2012
Josh Kornish wrote:
75 Euros for a cam....


Citation greatly needed.

Or as the internet says. PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

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By brenta
From Boulder, CO
Jul 29, 2012
Cima Margherita and Cima Tosa in the Dolomiti di Brenta.  October 1977.
75 euro is in line with the current MSRPs of C3s and C4s in Europe. (They are considered very expensive over there.) The US price should be lower.

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By Steve86
Jul 29, 2012
Can't remember where I saw this but I saw an MSRP of $70 for the US. The OR show in SLC is next week so more specific details for the US market should be forthcoming shortly.

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By Josh Kornish
From Missoula, MT
Jul 29, 2012
The Roach
Ranar wrote:
Citation greatly needed. Or as the internet says. PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.


Watch the video posted above at the Trade Show. The BD representative stated that price. BD comes in at ~27 mins.

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By mattm
From TX
Jul 30, 2012
Grande Grotto
These are most interesting in the .1 - .3 sizes. Above that there are better options with more cutting edge designs. (Totem) In the smallest sizes though, the design has some merit. While similar to Aliens and Mastercams they posses features of each while improving or discarding other features.

Mastercams suffer with their smaller range and just-ok trigger. In the tiny sizes, the difference between good-to-go and terrible can be a mm or two. The added 20% of the X4 COULD be a valuable feature. The trigger of the master cams isn't fantastic either. It's less flexible than an alien and awkward in horizontal placements. X4 looks quite flexible and the trigger a good "Version" of the Alien sheath.

The Tiny Aliens (blue, black) are limited with the wider head width (no internal cam springs) as well as the softer cam alloy. I've noticed in various reports that the smallest aliens tend to fail with the cam metal shearing off (see Aric's pull testing). I'm hoping the harder alloy of the X4 as well as the narrow head width will be improvements on the old Alien design.

Real World use will ultimately provide the answer. This is all pure internet speculation of course.

I'll probably pick up the .1 and .2 to check them out. The .3 MIGHT get on there too but there are other designs in that range that are good as well.

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 30, 2012
Josh Kornish wrote:
Watch the video posted above at the Trade Show. The BD representative stated that price. BD comes in at ~27 mins.


oh missed that...I'm an idiot :P

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 30, 2012
Josh Kornish wrote:
Watch the video posted above at the Trade Show. The BD representative stated that price. BD comes in at ~27 mins.


oh missed that...I'm an idiot :P

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By Aric Datesman
Jul 30, 2012
mattm wrote:
I've noticed in various reports that the smallest aliens tend to fail with the cam metal shearing off (see Aric's pull testing). I'm hoping the harder alloy of the X4 as well as the narrow head width will be improvements on the old Alien design.


Been a while since that testing happened, so quick clarification for those who weren't around then.... Yes, of the 30-40 CCH Aliens I pull tested a disturbing number smeared out of the test fixture well below their rated strength. But this result was *NOT* an indictment of the relatively soft 6061-T6 alloy CCH claimed to use for their lobes. Cams from other manufacturers that claim to use 6061-T6 did *not* have these problems, and neither did cams I personally made with 6061-T6 material that I have material certification for. Quite simply CCH's claim about the material they used was completely bogus, and the subsequent hardness testing I preformed proves that the material was not 6061-T6 (just to be sure I sent several samples out for independent 3rd party testing, along with samples from other manufacturers and material I had certs for).

The theory floated by the person I sent the samples to (who was at the time finishing a Masters in Material Science) was perhaps the place CCH contracted their extrusions to was counting on the heat from the extrusion process to bring the material to T6 condition, but failing completely in that regard. Given that his billable rate to do the micrographs to determine just what the material was would have been well into the 4 figures, we punted on it since we were only really interested in proving it wasn't 6061-T6 as claimed (he did the testing as a favor to me and wasn't interested in publishing micrograph results that CCH really should have paid for).

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By jbird
Aug 5, 2012
I haven't read much of this post but I can say I handled these cams a few weeks ago and noticed a few differences.

First they are way narrower than the traditional C4, if you are looking at a C4. . . imagine cutting off one cam lobe and you will have the width of the new C4.

Second they are way lighter, noticeable to the touch.

Third they are way more flexible. . . way more flexible.

And finally, yes the smaller sizes have an offset axle but the difference was not that noticeable to me.

just my opinion.

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By slim
Administrator
Aug 6, 2012
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
haven't read through the whole post, but if they make a size that is perfectly between blue and green alien, i'll probably buy 6 of them. i think the biggest mistake that all of the small cam manufacturers are making is that they the sizes are all too similar.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Aug 6, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
slim wrote:
haven't read through the whole post, but if they make a size that is perfectly between blue and green alien, i'll probably buy 6 of them. i think the biggest mistake that all of the small cam manufacturers are making is that they the sizes are all too similar.


This is off the subject of small cams, but IMO, Wild Country's sizes fall nicely in between C4s, especially from 1 to 4. I couldn't agree more with you about sizing. Seems like manufacturers would pay closer attention to this, and try to capitalize on it.

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