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New BD cams - rumor?
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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 12, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

The lobe attachment to the trigger in the closeup of the red cam on page 2 appear to be wires, the typical BD construction. However, the blue cam in the picture above appears to have a kevlar (or whatever that material is) coming from the lobe to the trigger assembly. Anyone else notice this? It's not a great picture, and I could be wrong, but if I'm not, and there are wires in one, and the non-metal on the other, it does raise some questions.


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By SilverSnurfer
Jul 12, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
The lobe attachment to the trigger in the closeup of the red cam on page 2 appear to be wires, the typical BD construction. However, the blue cam in the picture above appears to have a kevlar (or whatever that material is) coming from the lobe to the trigger assembly. Anyone else notice this? It's not a great picture, and I could be wrong, but if I'm not, and there are wires in one, and the non-metal on the other, it does raise some questions.


On the 2 prototypes that I handled a few months ago, one had the metal trigger wires and the other had non-metal wires-these could very well be those same protos, so you are seeing correctly.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jul 12, 2012
Cleo's Needle

Looks like their traditional double axle in that picture.


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 12, 2012

Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Looks like their traditional double axle in that picture.


That it does. Perhaps "stacked axle" merely refers to moving the springs inside the lobes? Curious...


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By paintrain
Jul 12, 2012
Chuck Norris can Divide by Zero

It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles.

PT


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By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Jul 12, 2012

paintrain wrote:
It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles. PT


This.


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By Some Random Guy
From San Francisco, CA
Jul 12, 2012
Man in black

bd vs metolious 2 <br />
bd vs metolious 2


they look sweet to me, being the bd fan that i am........probably won't buy them though cuz i already have doubles of master cams and offsets.

there is one big thing that stands out for me in comparing them to the master cam (assuming the above pictures are to scale and can be compared as such), the trigger wires on the master cam are almost twice as long.....meaning ur placement can go almost twice as deep if need be. looks like the X4 will only be able to do shallow placements. it seems like bd usually thinks of everything but why not this?


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By Some Random Guy
From San Francisco, CA
Jul 12, 2012
Man in black

Mia Tucholke wrote:
I love my 3.5s....... The ultimate fist for me!!!


that sounds so obscene......giggity, giggity


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 12, 2012

paintrain wrote:
It is my understanding that at a certain small size they no longer have enough room to put the axles side by side. They may have rectified it by stacking (offset maybe) the axles. PT



Doesn't look in the pic, but time will tell I suppose (by which I mean I don't have a better theory)

EDIT: As for the too-small thing, that's a limit of the a combination of the stress/strain curve of the material the axles are made of and the thickness and tensile strength of the portion of the lobe around the axle, and yup, at a certain point dual axles on the same plane just won't work. Pic above makes them look like they're on the same plane, but again, time will tell...


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By Steve86
Jul 12, 2012

The wires being shorter on the BD cam should be an advantage, not a disadvantage, for the reason Will S points out. The distance from the lobes of the cam to the trigger is going to affect how easily you can place them deep -- not the length of the trigger wires.


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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 12, 2012

Some Random Guy wrote:
there is one big thing that stands out for me in comparing them to the master cam (assuming the above pictures are to scale and can be compared as such), the trigger wires on the master cam are almost twice as long.....meaning ur placement can go almost twice as deep if need be. looks like the X4 will only be able to do shallow placements. it seems like bd usually thinks of everything but why not this?


lol fail logic


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By Some Random Guy
From San Francisco, CA
Jul 12, 2012
Man in black

Having shorter wires like that could have an advantage though, if you've ever seen a deep horizontal placement of a mastercam where the wires run over an edge and when loaded it self-retracts lobes, causing the cam to fall out...well that probably wouldn't be likely to happen with shorter wires.

i completely agree with that but i think my explanation was not clear enough. chris mac explains exactly what i meant in this video at about 1 minute in. not the total length from the lobes to the trigger but from the lobes to that first chunky piece on the stem. but who really knows until we can use them.


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By Timmamok
From Durango, CO
Jul 12, 2012
crack at undisclosed location - my little proj

looks kinda like a cross between a master cam and an alien.


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By Tradoholic
Jul 13, 2012

If this is at the OR show it might be over a year before you see them in stores.

Looks sweet but I don't see a reason to go out and buy another set of cams.


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By Dave Cummings
From Grand Junction, CO
Jul 13, 2012
me on my redpoint

They are expected to be released next Fall. It is BD so it could be a longer than that as well.


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 13, 2012

Fuel for the conspiracy-minded gear whores like me, which I just posted to ST:

Huh. Did a bit of digging just now, and that excentric-bearing cam patent (US6042069) was filed by Tony Christianson in 1998. He had previously filed another patent (US4643377) in 1985, which looks surprisingly like the original patent on the U-stem Camalot. I've not seen him named in later BD patents, but seems there might be a relationship there from the dual axle thing and the eccentric-bearing cam thing certainly fits the sound of the stacked axle thing.

Just enough of a connection there to make me really wonder if I've stumbled upon something....

Images from the Eccentric bearing cam patent:


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By Dave Cummings
From Grand Junction, CO
Jul 14, 2012
me on my redpoint

Bam!
Bam!


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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Jul 14, 2012



Even though if they are only going into a red c3 size I am disappoint, but still want.

Lord the twisted "perspective" and isometeric views in patient drawings always burn my eyeballs.


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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Jul 14, 2012

But don't the yellow C3 and the blue C4 cover virtually the same size range?


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By Pete Spri
Jul 14, 2012

Doesn't look like they bring much new to the small cam market. Bummer. Still look like a good cam, though.


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By Some Random Guy
From San Francisco, CA
Jul 14, 2012
Man in black

according to outside, available spring 2013 and $70.


camalot x4
camalot x4



camalot x4
camalot x4


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 14, 2012

Looks to me like stacked axle thing is quite similar to what was done on the eccentric bearing thing I posted up thread.... Axis of rotation for opposing lobes are shifted away from each other by eccentrics on the axle.


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By CWood
From SLC, UT
Jul 14, 2012

>

"Hi, I'm Chris Mac with Super Awkward gear reviews..."

Love the guy, but he could stand to do more than one take on some of those... :-p


Good illustration on the shallow placements. I prefer the BD X4 design to the mastercam design in the connection between trigger and trigger wires, at least as it's shown. The two plastic-sheathed wires on the mastercams get damaged very easily if you load them over an edge, even at body weight.


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By Some Random Guy
From San Francisco, CA
Jul 14, 2012
Man in black

"Doesn't look like they bring much new to the small cam market."

bd is touting an increase in range of 20%. i agree with will s, that's a huge benefit especially for the smallest sizes.


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 15, 2012

I dunno, Randome Guy.... Sounds like the "best in class" marketing hype used for cars. Sure, 20% is an impressive sounding number, but 20% more than *what*? If they're talking 20% more than Mastercams, color me less than impressed as Metolius uses a much more conservative cam angle (which gives less range) than BD and that alone will account for a goodly portion of the 20% increase.

Now, 20% more than Aliens... Yeah. That would be impressive but I doubt that's the case.


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