Benighted on Johnny Vegas, stuck ropes

Greetings, this morning we went out to do JV and Solar and met a party of three who spent the night up on a ledge to the left of JV after their ropes got stuck on the rap.

Two members of SAR (?) were out there helping them get off.
We agreed to attempt to retrieve their ropes for them and managed to get one this afternoon, an 11mm purple rope. But their bright green rope is still sitting up there off to the left of JV and hung up badly in chickenhead land. It's visible from the base. I think it's on/near Beulah's at this point.

The girl's name we got is Heather and she's from Seattle, I will leave her purple 11 at DRS. These guys looked like they had a pretty rough night. I don't think they had any bivy gear with them and they looked pretty knackered. Brrrrr.

Just throwing this out there, if anyone can get her other rope that would be great, I have to work tomorrow or I'd give it a shot.

Amazingly, there was no one on either of these routes all day today, we had the whole place to ourselves, how often does that happen, in perfect weather? Yee haw.

Cheers, C.

I found the green rope on Buela's Book today. I left it at DRS early this evening...

Sorry to hear about the epic...

Jason

If any of yall head up to the original route on rainbow soon we left some gear behind on the pitch before rainbow ledge.
Not expecting to get it back though. It was left over thanksgiving weekend.
We replaced the fixed line on the water chute slabs with a nice new static line that can be actaully jugged now instead of body hauling. There was a tasty looking mountain goat all tangled in the anchor when we arrived. we cut must of it loose and refixed the line. Seems like no one has been there for a while.
Cheers

As I recall, my friend and I got a rope stuck in SS Gully three and a half years ago, but it was an easy scramble back up to retrieve it. Not being from LV and first time at Solar, we probably did something stupid with our choice of anchor locations. But I definitely agree with the advice of using the Gully for descent.

Heather - glad to hear everything worked out in the end and major karma for cammyjams and Jason for your good deeds!

I'd like to thank Joseph Healy (of Portland, OR) for roped soloing the first two pitches of Beulah's Book in order to bring the stranded ladies jackets and heat packs at 4 AM. Soon after first light, Mike Ward and John Goebel (of Blue Diamond) climbed to the ledge at the top of pitch 2 of Beulah's Book to assist in the rescue. At twilight, the ladies had rapped from the anchors atop Johnny Vegas, but had pendulumed left to Beulah's Book to try to retrieve stuck gear. With such a severe angle, the ropes would not pull and they spent the night on the small ledge with temps falling to the low 30's.

The most important issue that comes to my mind is that there is no official technical rescue team in Vegas. There's Metro, with a great helicopter team, but there's no official SAR team of competent, experienced rock climbers. The climbers who helped the ladies were informal volunteers who used their own equipment, their own time, and accepted huge potential liability. I urge climbers who use Red Rock to contact BLM to propose that an official, competent, paid technical rescue team be created.

Vegas is reporting as an MRA regular member.

Their website offers more info:

lvmpdsar.com/

I believe this info was put up this year.

I looked at this situation when Philo reported from his friend (I don't believe LVMPSAR had put up their site, yet). I don't live there, but I climb alot & I'm always concerned about the process to rescue climbers. The info they present & their inclusion in the MRA does indicate they are addressing technical climber rescue. Though, it still reads like they just aren't supporting what it takes for high angle rescue. Maybe Vegas should offer more input, it still looks like a concern.

The issues I see with a paid technical rescue team:

The BLM does not have the budgetary strength to back this, which means that,
any specialized paid technical rescue team probably will need to charge for their services if they operate outside of what Vegas is doing,
and, the Sheriff is usually the one with jurisdiction in EMS matters; operational independence is one thing, but you can't break the law to get it; there would have to be some sort of cooperating effort.

The only thing I can offer is that if experienced climbers want to be involved to help other climbers at Red Rock, they will have to volunteer (or seek employment if they have it) to Vegas & be trained under ICS and/or any other protocol that Vegas requires.

Killis Howard wrote:After the accident involving guests of Jorge Urioste's 70th b-day party in the gully, I'll never rap it again.

There is nothing inherently dangerous or unsafe about rapping Solar Slab Gully. And to hold out the above mentioned accident as a reason not to rappel the Gully is a little disingenuous. According to the thread regarding that accident (link), it seems the victim unclipped from her rappel line and then fell from a ledge.

phil broscovak wrote:The injured climber simply and sadly unclipped at the ledge without being secured at the next station.

This is a mistake that could happen on any route, not just SS Gully.

I have mentioned previously that Johnny Vegas sticks ropes on rappel. This has happened to me personally, and I have seen parties stuck on four other occasions. I rappelled the Gully today, probably my twentieth time, and once again, had no problem.

To each there own, I guess...

Agreed!

I work as a climbing guide in RR and I'm on the Solar Slab Wall at least once a week when it's cold, if not a lot more. I've seen countless parties get their ropes stuck on JV. The Gully is definately the way to go...

Jason

Jason D. Martin wrote:Agreed! I work as a climbing guide in RR and I'm on the Solar Slab Wall at least once a week when it's cold, if not a lot more. I've seen countless parties get their ropes stuck on JV. The Gully is definately the way to go... Jason

Plus, IMHO, if a rope does get stuck in the gully, the climbing there is relatively easy...retrieving a stuck rope would not take that much effort.

The girls' ropes were stuck in a very tall and narrow, bottoming slot on the right side of the large roof between Beulah's and Vegas' p3's. I haven't done the Vegas rap to say for sure if you'd normally run into it, but that slot is a real rap hazzard and perfect knot eater. My impression, though, was it might be fairly close to whatever constitutes a 'normal' Vegas rap. There was no way to free the ropes and definitely no good options for an improvised ascent to attempt to free them. This slot is a fairly distinct and prominent feature [in the daylight] and should be avoided at all cost.

With regard to the SS gully rap, that seemed great with the exception of the lack of a second anchor at the 'round the corner' anchor spot so seconds can clip. Not too problematic, but might be a good idea in the case of less-than-experienced climbers, threesomes, or when several parties get stacked up there in the dark. It's certainly a better way down than rapping one of the routes on either side of it.

As for the SAR issue and Vegas being an MRA member, again, I'm not overly familiar with Vegas, Red Rocks, or the local SAR capabilities beyond what Jorge and Joanne have described to me and I trust their evaluation of those capabilities, or lack thereof. I have seen a number of MRA registered outfits around the country who would not be capable of [safely] conducting a successful rescue operation in many of the technical circumstances which could easily arise in Red Rocks.

Vegas / RR is a bit unusual given the small size of the local climbing community and the large tidal flows of out-of-town climbers who flow through town on trips - it is a formula which can easily lead to problematic incidents and highly technical ones at that. So, in my opinion, if the local MR outfit doesn't possess sufficient [rock climbing] technical expertise and depth of experience to carry off complex, vertical rescues (with and without air support) in some of the more difficult or inaccessible parts of RR, then someone in Vegas, BLM, and / or the MR outfit itself should be seriously reconsidering how they are resourced and organized for rescues. Enjoying, understanding, and practicing mountain rescue and actually being able to do it on difficult terrain and in circumstances that require extensive rock climbing experience are two very, very different things.

I think Vegas climbers should also be considering how they can become a constructive part of the process as well. Currently there appears to be a real deficit of clear rules of engagement, protocols for even simple cooperation and coordination, and little joint planning.

My two cents anyway...

P.S. A few resource links for those so inclined:

Ropes That Rescue
Ropeworks
Society of Professional Rope Access Technicians (SPRAT)